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Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

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Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#271

Post by randomdata »

ROTMetro wrote: post #163
carabiner wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "reasonable," what is "fair." These words signify a death spiral in wage discussions. The reality is that businesses cannot increase prices forever and have a market that still wants to pay them. If I sell burgers for $10k and they're shit burgers then I'd make no money and have to shut it all down. Just like my friend who shut down his cabinetry business because he was paying his employees more than himself…

What you are referring to is a zombie business. It does not offer enough value so it can only survive via low wages, something that is not guaranteed and is externally controlled. I think banks should does including this measure when it comes to financing. If have to pay your people below market wages to survive you don't have a business, you have a zombie that can't only survive as a parasite on others. Figure out h…

> If have to pay your people below market wages to survive you don't have a business

How does one pay below market wages? Someone's market wage is established by observing what they are being paid. They will always be equal, unless you mean an employer is illegally withholding funds owed to the worker?

> I cannot buy produce from a farmer for less than it costs them to grow it

Haha. As a farmer, I have lost money selling my produce more times than I wish to count. The customer couldn't care less about how much it costs you to produce a product. They are only going to pay what it is worth to them and not a penny more. The secret to a sustainable farm business is understanding how to weather those times when it costs more to grow the food than what the customer will pay.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#272

Post by swaggyBoatswain »

Benign dictatorships are almost always easier to pull off than board management models.

Board management models generally only work if it the restaurant was individually owned at one point and then that owner left

Starting a worker owned restaurant from the ground up is a terrible idea because the end customer doesn't really care and your artificially creating additional managerial barriers to entry when you have to move fast early on

If someone has the capability of leading a worker owned restaurant (there is always a leader even in these models - e.g. a board chair), they are also equally capable of running a simpler ran benign dictatorship with less red tape.

The other issue with board management runned operations is if you want to expand operations (e.g. opening up a second restaurant). It will get political very fast and not work because there will be disagreements on how money should be spent and allocated

A worker owned business is just a more complicated business. It can work but it needs very specific conditions and it's prone to political issues

I have seen though however a benign dictatorship take on funds from investors to expand operations, but that only works if there is a well established culture (e.g. usually the restaurant has built a few successful stores on their own). It's not very that far off from startups taking investor funding

There's a reason we call restaurant entrepreneur as restauranteurs

I run my own nonprofit currently (board management) and have done startup consulting for the restaurant space for over a decade. Restaurants and startups operates on similar principles

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#273

Post by sh34r »

Employee-owned co-ops are extremely common in Southern Europe. The Mondragon Corporation has 81,000 employees. Your ideological bias is showing if you think this is even a question. Empirically speaking, the answer is a resounding yes.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#274

Post by jimmygrapes »

popinman322 wrote: post #270
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay This is one of the most interesting parts of business to me. How do a bunch of people below the "head honcho/top dog" collectively agree "you're right, I don't selfishly look out for myself and think I'm worth $99999999/hr, that person does…

Everyone is different and has different motivations. We don't all think the same way, either. Some workers just want a stable, sane work environment and are willing to compromise on pay for other benefits. These same people are typically willing to let others do more work for more pay because it makes their own lives easier. One possible approach: you could do an exercise where everyone gets $N imaginary dollars and…

> Everyone is different and has different motivations. We don't all think the same way, either.

Spot on! Unfortunately this is also why "everyone is equal" rarely works

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#275

Post by sh34r »

sharts wrote: post #80

Worker-owned anything can work. It's democracy in the workplace.

It's amazing how many people have been brainwashed into supporting dictatorship in the workplace, isn't it? So-called free men, who find the idea of no gods and no masters to be unthinkable. You have nothing to lose but your chains!

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#276

Post by marcellus23 »

amrocha wrote: post #259
exabrial wrote: post #88

Yes, absolutely, but there are pitfalls: * Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay * Consumers despite "Least common denominator" which is often the result of "design by committee". Usually consumers are after something niche, unique, artistic, and creative, which is the inspiration…

I love that when it comes to tech companies, managers are all bumbling idiots and should all be fired to allow the workers to get the job done. But as soon as a working class business tries that, it apparently doesn't work in the long term.

HN is composed of individuals, it's not a hive mind. Different people have different opinions.

Besides, comments here tend to complain about middle management being useless, not leadership.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#277

Post by oaiey »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #262
exabrial wrote: post #88

Yes, absolutely, but there are pitfalls: * Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay * Consumers despite "Least common denominator" which is often the result of "design by committee". Usually consumers are after something niche, unique, artistic, and creative, which is the inspiration…

> * Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay This is one of the most interesting parts of business to me. How do a bunch of people below the "head honcho/top dog" collectively agree "you're right, I don't selfishly look out for myself and think I'm worth $99999999/hr, that person does…

Why? You can lead a place as a dynamic and mother of the company waitress but pay your mission critical and hard to find cooks some dollars more. Why is there a hierarchy?

Same supplies in technology: you pay your project manager less despite he is the boss of the developers which earn a lot more.

I am literally in a position where I earn like half of what people two levels down of me earn and deserve, nevertheless I lead them and fire them in doubt. I am in a different country of a multi national.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#278

Post by [deleted] »

swaggyBoatswain wrote: post #272

Benign dictatorships are almost always easier to pull off than board management models. Board management models generally only work if it the restaurant was individually owned at one point and then that owner left Starting a worker owned restaurant from the ground up is a terrible idea because the end customer doesn't really care and your artificially creating additional managerial barriers to entry when you have to…

[deleted]

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#279

Post by [deleted] »

Waterluvian wrote: post #193

It reminds me of when people complain about stuff like Electron apps. If you hate it, go do it yourself. You’ll either a) succeed and solve your problem or b) develop a much more complete understanding of the problems being faced by someone in a different role. I think every worker would benefit from being more involved in the business operations, or really any other jobs that help their company/project function. (of…

[deleted]

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#280

Post by hot_gril »

TylerE wrote: post #244
DangitBobby wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost certainly a better for the people who are working somewhere they actually care about for more than minimum wage with performance potentially tied to income.

Except that looking at the two linked here (Seward and the pizza place) both are struggling - raising prices, cutting hours, and both are essentially begging the community to fund them so they continue to exist.

Idk how Cheese Board is doing. They were fine last I checked. Just probably would've done way better as a corp. The Avedisyan couple turned their cheese shop into a coop decades ago, and it was basically an act of charity when they could've kept ownership instead. The store didn't expand much despite decades of exceptional work and high popularity, which is a missed opportunity for profit, but that wasn't their goal. I do wonder where they got the initial investment for the shop.
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