Can a worker-owned restaurant work? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#161

Post by roughly » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 11:15 PM UTC

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #65

The Seward Cafe in Minneapolis has running successfully as a "cooperatively owned, collectively operated restaurant and community-oriented venue" for 49 years. https://www.sewardcafe.com

Cheeseboard in Berkeley has been a successful co-op since 1971: https://cheeseboardcollective.coop/

I always enjoy these kinds of articles - "Could this radical new way of doing things ever succeed?" where the "radical new way" has a history going back to before the Reagan revolution. We're a really kind of unimaginative people when it comes to talking about how one arranges things in society.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#162

Post by prawn » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 11:18 PM UTC

Affric wrote: post #132

toyg wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the long run, that is bound to generate a separate managerial class, with all that it entails. It's how most cooperatives eventually die: they turn into regular businesses.

Well said. Good co-ops that last have the decisions made by those working there. And it's a lot of work.

And I'd guess that a restaurant doesn't have the scale to shoulder a management tier and the costs involved.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#163

Post by ROTMetro » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 11:21 PM UTC

carabiner wrote: post #114

p1necone wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay If it was worker owned wouldn't you just pay everyone some reasonable wage that the business can afford and then also split profits evenly?

What is "reasonable," what is "fair." These words signify a death spiral in wage discussions. The reality is that businesses cannot increase prices forever and have a market that still wants to pay them. If I sell burgers for $10k and they're shit burgers then I'd make no money and have to shut it all down. Just like my friend who shut down his cabinetry business because he was paying his employees more than himself…

What you are referring to is a zombie business. It does not offer enough value so it can only survive via low wages, something that is not guaranteed and is externally controlled. I think banks should does including this measure when it comes to financing. If have to pay your people below market wages to survive you don't have a business, you have a zombie that can't only survive as a parasite on others. Figure out how to manage the business or increase your value add or be explicate this is a passion project not a viable business. I cannot buy produce from a farmer for less than it costs them to grow it, but somehow businesses think they can pay people less than it costs to live.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#164

Post by derefr » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 11:22 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #127

saled wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These points are solved by the workers electing an executive or directors who makes those decisions, until the workers are sick of them and replace them in an AGM or an emergency meeting. Works the same as shareholders.

In the long run, that is bound to generate a separate managerial class, with all that it entails. It's how most cooperatives eventually die: they turn into regular businesses.

I mean, that’s fine, no? As long as regular non-manager employees are still on the corporation’s Board, the managerial class (CEO et al) still all have the Board’s sword of Damocles dangling over their neck at all times.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#165

Post by hot_gril » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 11:22 PM UTC

Archit3ch wrote: post #142

Wouldn't a family-owned business also qualify?

I said the same thing. Guess that's the "trivial case" and worker-owned implies they've managed to scale outside the family.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#166

Post by hex4def6 » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 11:23 PM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #74

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #65

The Seward Cafe in Minneapolis has running successfully as a "cooperatively owned, collectively operated restaurant and community-oriented venue" for 49 years. https://www.sewardcafe.com

Green on pink is now my new least favorite color combo. Thanks, I hate it! Edit: I encourage downvoters to actually try to read the linked page before downvoting me. It’s incredibly unreadable.

Their 2012 page (https://web.archive.org/web/20120411013004/http://www.seward...) is significantly more better organized (For instance, address is right in the top right, as is opening hours), and easier to read in general. It also has features like embedding a google map into the page.

The new one doesn't tell me an obvious address -- the only one appears to be the handwritten pixelated background image, which is partially blocked on every single page by a foreground photo.

I dig retro and minimalistic pages. This is just bad design.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#167

Post by Gaessaki » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 11:23 PM UTC

raybb wrote: post #61

If anyone wants to start a coop there is an accelerator for them based in NYC called start.coop. I've joined a few of their calls and it seems like they're pushing for pretty great stuff. https://www.start.coop/accelerator Also in NYC is "The Drivers Cooperative" which is Uber but owned by drivers and they're doing pretty well so far (based on the last annual report). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Drivers_Coopera…

Our coop took part in start.coop. Open to answering questions from anyone interested in starting a cooperative startup!

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#168

Post by hot_gril » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 11:24 PM UTC

kristopolous wrote: post #143

amelius wrote: post #137

Not in any successful way, because the entire profit margin is being eaten by delivery companies like Uber Eats. There is no financial future in restaurants, worker-owned or not.

Is intentional "no delivery" a thing? It should be.

Lots of restaurants are dine-in only. If you provide takeout, nothing's stopping the customer from then delivering it to a secondary customer, but also idk why you'd want to prevent that.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#169

Post by cat_plus_plus » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 11:26 PM UTC

It can, but it will have problem scaling

- If the business grows and starts needing management skills beyond what a cook or a waiter would have, you will have trouble hiring a qualified manager for same wages you pay to waiters - If you need a loan to expand, lender is likely to want some control over how a restaurant is run rather than leaving it up to workers

If you are content to stay at a small scale where these factors do not matter, sure go ahead.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#170

Post by tlogan » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 11:26 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #88

Yes, absolutely, but there are pitfalls: * Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay * Consumers despite "Least common denominator" which is often the result of "design by committee". Usually consumers are after something niche, unique, artistic, and creative, which is the inspiration…

I completely agree. Restaurants operate on razor-thin margins and are primarily about efficient management, not the workforce.

The only successful worker-owned models I’ve seen involve a tight-knit partnership, like a husband as the chef and wife as the bartender. And that is their “part time” job: the majority of their time goes into tough logistical tasks—dealing with suppliers, managing food costs, managing lease, fixing, schedule, and so on.