Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates • Hacker News Board

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#31

Post by Someone1234 » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 3:08 AM UTC

greyface- wrote: post #5

The submitted support article doesn't really provide any details about the change. This is the email they sent users today: -- Notice about your CPNI settings Google Fi Wireless takes your privacy seriously. The updated Google Fi Privacy Notice provides information about how we collect and use personal information. This includes your Customer Proprietary Network Information (CPNI). CPNI includes the destination, tech…

Can we talk about the dark-pattern in that email body?

- Mention that this doesn't include name/address/phone number, while glossing over that this allows near-GPS level tracking (the "address" part is particularly offensive).

- Talks about what "Google Fi" uses CPNI for, including a bullet list, which is completely irrelevant and not why they're sending this email. It is literally so that you'll skim it, and not read the next paragraph.

- Imply that this is authorizing "Googling LLC" (and other Alphabet companies). But what this is actually doing is authorizing Alphabet's affiliates meaning up to every company in the world.

- They updated the ToS but didn't mention what changed.

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#32

Post by thatcherthorn » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 3:09 AM UTC

> If you do not choose to opt-out within 30 days of receiving this notice, Fi will assume your approval to share your CPNI with other Google services and our affiliates.

I assume this is legally questionable?

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#33

Post by Someone1234 » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 3:10 AM UTC

throwaway28203 wrote: post #25

I forwarded the email to oig@ftc.gov. They say it's the wrong way to complain about consumer issues, but I don't care.

Shouldn't you contact the FCC not the FTC?

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#34

Post by ddejohn » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 3:11 AM UTC

verdverm wrote: post #4

Note, they also provide a one click link in the email to opt out, super easy Still enjoying my sub $30 bills and bloatware free device

Not sure why you're getting downvoted. It was also a single click for me, in a browser.

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#35

Post by Someone1234 » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 3:11 AM UTC

verdverm wrote: post #9

anonydsfsfs wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not one-click, or at least it wasn't for me. I clicked the link in the sentence "If you prefer to opt out of letting Fi use and share your CPNI with Alphabet and Google services, you can do so by replying here", and it took me to the Google Fi homepage. I had to then click on Settings, "Privacy & Security", and finally on "Allow CPNI Sharing". Four clicks total.

I clicked it from my Fi device 4 is still far less effort than having to call Amazon to cancel your account (among the many providers that make opt out / cancel incredibly difficult)

You said one click. Now you've moved the goalposts to "less bad than [other company]."

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#36

Post by tguvot » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 3:24 AM UTC

vel0city wrote: post #27

tguvot wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, i guess this email constitutes "affirmative, express consent" unless user clicks on opt-out. at least this is conclusion of google legal department.

It's not as there's no guarantee the subscriber ever actually received the email much less made it past their spam filter or that they opened it and read it. I can't see any way this is "opt-in".

there is no guarantee to make sure that subscriber actually delivered notification outside of personal delivery with ID verification.

i guess google legal decided that this is about "reasonable" effort and given that this email sent from google it's above reasonable that it's past spam filter and sufficiently reasonable effort in general.

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#37

Post by schiffern » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 3:27 AM UTC

tguvot wrote: post #17

greyface- wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. Federal regulations require "affirmative, express consent" for CPNI release approval to count as "opt-in". https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2018-title47-vol3/xm...

well, i guess this email constitutes "affirmative, express consent" unless user clicks on opt-out. at least this is conclusion of google legal department.

>this email constitutes "affirmative, express consent" unless user clicks on opt-out.

No. That would be (by definition) negative, implicit consent.

Federal law specifically demands "affirmative, express" consent.

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#38

Post by rickbradley » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 3:27 AM UTC

I filed a complaint with the FCC, citing Title 47 of the CFR and including their email to me as an attached PDF.

The complaints link: https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#39

Post by seanhunter » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 3:31 AM UTC

tguvot wrote: post #17

greyface- wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. Federal regulations require "affirmative, express consent" for CPNI release approval to count as "opt-in". https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2018-title47-vol3/xm...

well, i guess this email constitutes "affirmative, express consent" unless user clicks on opt-out. at least this is conclusion of google legal department.

Affirmative means the user has to take an action to consent. Not doing something for 30 days isn't an affirmative action - it's known as "implicit consent" which is the opposite of "affirmative consent"[1]

Express means they have to specifically consent and can't be implied to consent or consent passively somehow.[2]

This is neither affirmative nor express consent. Also notice that literally nothing that Google (or any company) can do gives affirmative, express consent from the user. The user themselves has to do something for Google to obtain that consent - that's literally the whole point of the wording of "affirmative, express".

I'd be very surprised if google's legal thinks this is actually consent or ok. I think most likely they said it probably wouldn't stand up to challenge and the McKinsey types who run google decided they probably wouldn't be challenged and it was worth the risk.

[1] https://iapp.org/resources/article/consent-2/

[2] https://www.wilsonlaw.com/blog/difference-between-express-an...

Re: Fi now opts you into the use of your CPNI by Alphabet affiliates

#40

Post by dhfjfhfh » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 3:33 AM UTC

verdverm wrote: post #9

anonydsfsfs wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not one-click, or at least it wasn't for me. I clicked the link in the sentence "If you prefer to opt out of letting Fi use and share your CPNI with Alphabet and Google services, you can do so by replying here", and it took me to the Google Fi homepage. I had to then click on Settings, "Privacy & Security", and finally on "Allow CPNI Sharing". Four clicks total.

I clicked it from my Fi device 4 is still far less effort than having to call Amazon to cancel your account (among the many providers that make opt out / cancel incredibly difficult)

I clicked it from my Fi device too - and it automatically opened the Fi app, which doesn't have this setting.

It took a lot more than 4 clicks to figure out I needed to switch chrome to desktop mode AND needed to open the link in a new tab to make it stop opening the app.

Side rant - Wasn't HTML5 supposed to do away with the need for dedicated apps? Interaction with any corp is now split between web, app, and phone, all with different capabilities.