Live data from Hacker News

Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

wsj.com

21–30 of 56 posts

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#21

[flagged]

I don't agree with your assertions. They have a center-left worldview which I personally don't share but I find that they are generally factually accurate.

>We know they post propaganda, spin stories however they please

Don't speak for me. I don't know that, every publication has a slant of some kind.

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#22
People like the gentleman in the article are PART OF THE PROBLEM, because they (and it seems most people) seem to have a certain benevolence towards their employer (and US capitalism) no matter how hard they’re fucked by it. He was reassigned to sales, it took a toll on his mental health, but hey no hard feelings because now he’s in a role he enjoys at IBM. The message to IBM is that they can get away with it and this trend will no doubt continue there and elsewhere in the US.

We could unionize like that, guys, especially the software engineers. Where are your balls?

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless there is a contract with the employee, such as a collective bargaining agreement with a union, there is no legal reason a business has to pay an employee severance in the US. A business might pay an employee severance for morale purposes, good PR, and/or to entice the employee to sign agreements that reduce the business's future liabilities. If an employee agrees to quit their job in exchange for severance mon…

My understanding, which could be wrong, is that in a lot of cases severance is offered on condition you won't fight the termination or take legal action. So it is in part a CYA from the companies side.

Yes, that is what I meant in:

> and/or to entice the employee to sign agreements that reduce the business's future liabilities.

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#24
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless there is a contract with the employee, such as a collective bargaining agreement with a union, there is no legal reason a business has to pay an employee severance in the US. A business might pay an employee severance for morale purposes, good PR, and/or to entice the employee to sign agreements that reduce the business's future liabilities. If an employee agrees to quit their job in exchange for severance mon…

> Unless there is a contract with the employee, such as a collective bargaining agreement with a union, there is no legal reason a business has to pay an employee severance in the US. Who on Earth is working without an employment contract?

A lot of W-2 jobs are simple pay per hour or per year, nothing more. There is not even a need for HR, there are no benefits, just a small business where the owner might run everything.

Even if you do have benefits, I doubt the local hotel/restaurant/spa/doctors office/etc is going through a formal layoff process with severance. Probably not even all the outsourcing companies that Apple/Microsoft/Meta/etc use for tech support and whatnot.

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#25
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless there is a contract with the employee, such as a collective bargaining agreement with a union, there is no legal reason a business has to pay an employee severance in the US. A business might pay an employee severance for morale purposes, good PR, and/or to entice the employee to sign agreements that reduce the business's future liabilities. If an employee agrees to quit their job in exchange for severance mon…

> Unless there is a contract with the employee, such as a collective bargaining agreement with a union, there is no legal reason a business has to pay an employee severance in the US. Who on Earth is working without an employment contract?

Americans!

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#26
Folks flagged ae_throw's question and got it to be muted (which I found very interesting)... so I'm resurrecting his question from and answering it anyways:

>Can someone give a reasonable argument as to why we should read WSJ? Or WaPo? Or NYT or any other large publication of this nature (looking particularly at The Economist). We know they post propaganda, spin stories however they please, and we know their fact checking is awful. I don’t think they have any journalistic integrity left.Please enlighten, am curious.

I find it useful to understand the other side and the echo chamber/bubble they are in; and by extension, leads to better insight and critique of the echo chamber my side is in.

As a right-winger (I put my bias forward to help communicate up-front my angle/bias as everybody has their biases) - for instance, I stopped reacting to NYT, NPR and WaPo's headlines and instead just categorized and label mechanically (as an AI sentiment bot might do) what their purpose for "manufactured consent" is; the headline behind the headline, for example for the left:

Many headline news if you flip to any NYT headlines any time of day, you can categorize them as "climate insecurity" (Global Warming is eating up a local area, Maui/Florida), the "MAGA threat" (a minority group is being persecuted by the vengeful "white right"), "neo-conservative foreign policy endorsements" (Ukraine is 'wining the war; Ughyur human rights violations; America is winning against Russia/China bloc and always on the progressive side of human rights).

It helps me frame critically the right-wing biases in my own echo chamber. For instance, it makes me realize that WSJ's more endorsement for "holier-than-thou" free-wheeling enterprise/business is really the equivalent right-wing propaganda to indoctrinate its side against left's efforts to union and regulate businesses for consumer rights and the environment. Similarly, the anti-SJW, exodus from California to Texas theme in Fox News is parallel to the "MAGA threat" stories from the left; and is just right-wing identity politics - just as bad as left-wing identity politics. And foreign policy-wise, both left and right are surprisingly uniform and orthodox to American exceptionalism and interventionism.

It makes me realize that American politics and journalism is at large a game of sports, marketing where both sides hype up the "brand-values" of their sides and vilify the other side; but at the end of the day, the owners in the box seats at the top of the arena have the same values; and the fans/citizens though may spit and belittle each other in the spirit of factional rivalary, surprisingly have so much in common with each other as jersey-wearing blue collar tailgating fans - than the NFL owners in their suites and boardrooms. And this notion of simultaneously gives me both great cynicism and hope for the state of America.

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#27
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless there is a contract with the employee, such as a collective bargaining agreement with a union, there is no legal reason a business has to pay an employee severance in the US. Who on Earth is working without an employment contract?

A lot of W-2 jobs are simple pay per hour or per year, nothing more. There is not even a need for HR, there are no benefits, just a small business where the owner might run everything. Even if you do have benefits, I doubt the local hotel/restaurant/spa/doctors office/etc is going through a formal layoff process with severance. Probably not even all the outsourcing companies that Apple/Microsoft/Meta/etc use for tech…

I have no idea what a "W-2 job" is. In my country, and most countries, it doesn't matter if you're paid by the hour, by the "year" (what?), salaried etc. Virtually every employee has an employment contract, and every employee without an explicit employment contract (which is illegal) has an implied employment contract.

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#29
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only severance but unemployment compensation (which can significantly affect mandatory unemployment insurance costs to the company) can also be avoided by companies if their people quit instead of being laid off. That is why there is the concept of "Constructive Dismissal" (or other similar terms). If the company is significantly degrading your work conditions, hours, requirements, interactions, responsibilities,…

> If you have immediate better employment options, take them without doing your old company any favors. Not sure about the US but here in Europe that's a very bad idea. If you change jobs willingly you give up your "seniority" meaning if your next job lays you off you will get no severance and also lower unemployment benefits. So caving in you would give up a huge chunk of social security. If you have a mortgage in p…

Wow that's really terrible advice. If you see a good opportunity then jump on it and don't look back. Otherwise your career will stagnate and you'll eventually get stuck somewhere with no growth potential.

As for paying your mortgage, anyone working in a volatile field such as tech should prioritize saving up several months of living expenses. You have to assume that on any given day your employer might get destroyed by an upstart competitor and lay everyone off.

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#30
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of W-2 jobs are simple pay per hour or per year, nothing more. There is not even a need for HR, there are no benefits, just a small business where the owner might run everything. Even if you do have benefits, I doubt the local hotel/restaurant/spa/doctors office/etc is going through a formal layoff process with severance. Probably not even all the outsourcing companies that Apple/Microsoft/Meta/etc use for tech…

I have no idea what a "W-2 job" is. In my country, and most countries, it doesn't matter if you're paid by the hour, by the "year" (what?), salaried etc. Virtually every employee has an employment contract, and every employee without an explicit employment contract (which is illegal) has an implied employment contract.

In the US, a W-2 job means one where you are classified as an employee, which means various labor regulations apply in your relationship with your employer. But even then, everywhere except the state of Montana has the concept of "at-will" employment, meaning absent an explicit contract that says otherwise, an employer or an employee can sever the relationship whenever they want.

So if you are an employee and the manager wants to reduce labor costs, they can simply terminate employees, and the employees would have to apply for unemployment benefits from the state government.

An example of a non W-2 job is when a business sells their services to another business, even if the business is just 1 person. Such as a business hiring a painter who works by and for themselves. There would be no labor regulations involved here because the painter is not an employee.

W-2 is the federal tax form a business gives to employees stating the taxable income and other information for the year, and 1099 is the federal tax form a business gives to vendors stating the taxable income for the year.

Post reply on HN