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Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

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Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#81
post #66
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, its not like hundreds of people's lives are in these pilot's hands. I can't imagine what a depressed pilot might do.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

Do you know what prevents people from doing that? Being able to get help for their problems. Do you know what doesn't? Forcing them to hide their problems so they are able to keep their job. The discussion isn't really about whether suicidal pilots should be allowed to fly - it's whether the system should allow for pilots with mental health concerns (which would be a large majority of them over the course of an entir…

To speak a little more to this - there's a lot of jokes in the aviation community about mental health.. such as "Do you know how many pilots the FAA claims have mental health issues? None. Do you know how many pilots lie about their mental health issues? All of them."

When I have students go in for a medical, even if they're just gonna be run of the mill private pilots, I tell them "Answer every question with as few words as possible. If the AME (medical examiner) asks you if you've ever been sad, say "No". 'What about when your dad died?' Say no. When you got that diagnosis for cancer five years ago? Wasn't sad. Puppy died as a child? Wasn't sad. Never sad. Never anxious. Never depressed. Never anything. Just cool like Steve McQueen. If it's not in your medical records then it never happened.

then I get asked who the hell is Steve McQueen.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#82
This sadly reminds me of Germanwings Flight 9525. Detecting mental illness can be very, very difficult. Pilots will not seek therapy or medical care for mental health issues if they think they could lose their job because of it. Authorities should know when there is a pilot with serious mental concerns. Short of breaking a wall of privacy I don't see how we can bridge this divide.

https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/the-madness-in-our-metho...

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#83
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of us veterans were paid below the poverty line most of the time we were in the service. Disability benefits are one way many seek to get what they're owed.

Can you provide specific details on this? My understanding is that even if you were continually at the rank of E-1 (which would never happen), your salary + housing + subsistence would put you well over the poverty line.

The 2020 poverty line for 2 people was 17,240.

The 2020 salary for E-1 was 1,732.94/month or 20,795.28.

This doesn't take into account any housing or other additional allowances.

Sorry, I don't see how a veteran spent their career in the military below the poverty line.

Also, consider there hasn't been a draft for 50 years. No one has forced anyone to take military pay.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#84
post #48
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the FAA's normal mental health brigade horseshit, except this time it's the FAA snooping around in VA records just because they can. It looks like the veterans being targeted have various concerns like PTSD, which the FAA finds that as soon as you even think you're depressed, they want to revoke your pilots license because they think you'll immediately pull Some Shit in the air. The average person has no clue ho…

Right, its not like hundreds of people's lives are in these pilot's hands. I can't imagine what a depressed pilot might do.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

Mmm, keep spreading that paranoia and lack of compassion for people with mental health disorders.

There are depressed people in every single aspect of human society, including the scary critical ones people like you fear.

Unfortunately, people like you who think this is an actual talking point make it impossible for the people who need help in critical positions to get that help by stigmatizing the existence of the issue in the first place.

People like you who cherry pick the negative outcomes of mental health disorders while ignoring that most suffer in silence for the "safety" of others like you are the problem.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a vet, but I wonder if it comes from working in an environment that is so massive, at times wasteful, and your contributions feel insignificant. I think a lot of people could convince themselves that if they don’t take advantage of something, someone else will.

The negative PR from wrongfully denying a vet benefits is so bad, and the system is completely un-incentivized to be cost-effective, that there are basically 0 real eligibility tests. Any politician (or bureaucrat) who says "you know, maybe we should be denying disability to 20% of these veterans" is going to be strung up and quartered. So, nobody tries.

This is said so confidently, but clearly with little to no experience with the military or the VA to back it up. No vet is receiving benefits without something to back up their disability rating, even if that rating is higher than it seemingly "should" be. Some disabilities are easier to establish than others, because the issue causing the disability is so prevalent in the service that the military has little basis to deny them. Hearing loss is a common one. That said, I'm a vet, with significant hearing loss due to my time in (I was an F-16 maintainer on the flightline, an extremely intense noise environment). I'm not eligible for _any_ disability rating at all, because I did not report issues while I was still in the service; but hearing loss issues often take time to become apparent, and it's not like we were being tested for it. It was not uncommon for someone to forget their earplugs (the second layer of hearing protection we had, under our headset), and be essentially forced to go out on the flightline anyway to handle some task around running engines. These events would be downplayed, but just one instance of that can cause irreversible hearing loss.

But that's just a specific issue relevant to my time in the service. The bottom line is that unless you report every little thing that _might_ cause an issue later, you're going to be up shit creek when you get out and find out that something you were exposed to during your service is causing an expensive medical issue that you have to deal with. There are all kinds of fucked up things people had to do while they were in, that they struggle to get compensation for now that the consequences are catching up, because the issues aren't straightforwardly attributable to some event during your service, like with combat injuries. Burn pits are the most notorious one - you have advocates like Jon Stewart fighting in Congress to pass laws to support vets who were forced to work those pits and are now battling all kinds of complications. If anyone should be an obvious beneficiary of the disability system, beyond those with combat injuries, it should be those folks - but they are largely left hanging in the wind. In the case of burn pits especially, the military _knew_ there were consequences to having soldiers work them, but chalked it up as the cost of war.

Frankly, from what I've observed, once vets are out of the service, our country largely gives them the middle finger when they struggle with mental or physical health issues. I say "them" here, because I'm not a combat veteran, and I'm lucky that I had it pretty easy during my tenure (2009-2015), but for many, that is very much not the case. Yeah, nobody in Congress is going to stand up in front of everyone and say "let's make disability benefits harder to obtain" - but I have no doubt they'd have few, if any, qualms about doing it behind closed doors.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#86
You think this is bad? You should see the lengths people with security clearances will go to in order to hide the fact they need mental healthcare. By the time they finally get it, they're already beaming mental radio commands from Venus.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(responding to to sibling comment) No, I'm not a doctor that has examined them. I have been told by these people that they want to maximize their disability payments and they can do that by claiming things are caused by agent orange. I've been told by them that they will shop around the diagnosis until they get something in writing they can use. I have been told by these people that they don't care if it is related t…

So basically getting a second opinion from another doctor is somehow fraudulent behavior? If you have a problem with this, shouldn't it be with the quack doctors making the diagnoses and not the patients? I was diagnosed with ADHD because I (truthfully) told a doctor I had the symptoms of ADHD. Now I have a prescription for adderall. Did I commit fraud?

getting a second opinion is not fraud. but by the time you're getting the tenth opinion just because the first nine docs didn't give you written justification to draw on public funds, that looks pretty fraudulent.

or put a different way, GP is describing people explicitly admitting that they went to as many doctors as it took to get specific language in a note. they admitted that they didn't care at all about any therapeutic outcomes from all those visits. assuming this isn't a tall tale, does that sound like a good faith use of the system to you?

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#88
post #48
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the FAA's normal mental health brigade horseshit, except this time it's the FAA snooping around in VA records just because they can. It looks like the veterans being targeted have various concerns like PTSD, which the FAA finds that as soon as you even think you're depressed, they want to revoke your pilots license because they think you'll immediately pull Some Shit in the air. The average person has no clue ho…

Right, its not like hundreds of people's lives are in these pilot's hands. I can't imagine what a depressed pilot might do.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

Advocating against yourself. Lack of freedom is a grand cause of the world we live in today - revoking more of it is how you end up on the wrong side of that.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#89
post #33

The mental health limitations around flight are how you get malaysian air flight 370. Don't say anything, treat anything, work through anything involving mental health because you'll lose your license immediately. Therefore the folks with milder mental illnesses will never solo pilot a plane, and folks with serious psychopathic mental illness, especially if it appears after they begin working, will kill everyone on b…

Is there any confirmed connection between MA370 and mental health, or are you speculating?
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