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Common mistakes in salary negotiation

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Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#461

Post by CRConrad »

me_me_me wrote: post #391
wholinator2 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was looking a gift horse in the mouth. Something about gum health being indicative of the age or health of the horse, and it being disrespectful to critically examine a gift in front of the giver.

that would be akin to looking up market price of a gift in front of person giving you something of value :D

Yeah, only the saying is slightly older than online product price lookups. It's the other way around, looking up prices now is akin to what looking a gift horse in rhe mouth has always been.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#463

Post by abwizz »

pc86 wrote: post #406
abwizz wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This kind of strategy seems a bizarre one for a company. "Let's figure out how to systematically pay our employees less than they're really worth." so we established that the revenue of the company belongs to the employees that worked for it, but the company has to skimm at least the operating costs before payout as otherwise it would make a loss. but most companies have an obligation to make profit, so there is no…

> so we established that the revenue of the company belongs to the employees that worked for it Where did we establish this? Because it's not true, especially in a strictly legal sense.

thx

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#464

Post by jnwatson »

hiddencost wrote: post #361
jnwatson wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got 2/3 FAANGs to double their total comp. One was 2.8x. It is indeed a worthy exercise.

The only way to do that, of the places I'm aware of, is to get them to change your starting level from "fresh grad" to "engineer with 2 years of experience". Since the people involved in setting salary are not involved in setting level, that mostly doesn't happen, because they're not going to countermand the leveling decision just to get your compensation up. When did you do this? In the current hiring climate, I can…

Almost 2 years ago.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#465

Post by brianwawok »

photonerd wrote: post #457
roland35 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be a valid range - I've seen plenty of postings (internal at least) where the the seniority is flexible. Also a flexible location could also lead to a big range depending if you are based in NYC versus Iowa...

Fair, but at that point they’re not hiring for a role or need; they’re hiring to get butts in seats. That’s a strategy, for sure, but not a great one.

Says you.

I think it's a horrible idea to hire someone with 5 years in tech X, 4 years in tech Z, and 6 years in method H, who wants to work for 140-150k.

I would rather interview people for a range, and if you find an awesome human - take them.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#466

Post by sammorrowdrums »

UncleMeat wrote: post #397
sammorrowdrums wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never accept an exploding offer. If they won’t give you more time, then let them see you’re prepared to let it lapse. It’s a ploy to create urgency when there is none, as is never in your interest as a candidate. I’d be very surprised if a single offer actually expired, it’s expensive to lose qualified candidates for the hiring company.

This is more "job cannon" stuff. This works well if you don't urgently need income and have significant additional job prospects. The power imbalance between employers and employees means that "just avoid the businesses that exploit you" is not an option for a large number of workers. The only way to actually defeat exploding offers is collective action.

Perhaps you’re correct, but I’m not saying don’t take an offer from the company. More an advice to accept a little risk that the exploding offer won’t explode and carry on with your job hunt. My advice above was to keep as many cards in play as you can, and recognise where you have leverage (which includes sunk cost of qualifying you as a candidate to hiring company), and try to maximise that leverage as it normally gives you a better return than any in-role pay rise and promotion prospects once you start new role.

Recognising you don’t have much leverage and have no option but to be exploited is a sad reality to have to accept, but of course if your job prospects are not great then that can be the case, and then maybe at least you can wait until the last day before you accept an exploding offer, where you have more knowledge of how the rest of your interview pipeline is progressing.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#467

Post by ohthatsnotright »

gambiting wrote: post #460
ohthatsnotright wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I work in games That's your indication. There are a lot of people who want to work in games, but that doesn't mean it's a good culture.

I don't understand. OP suggested that giving people "explosive" offers is an indication of poor culture - I point out that the necessity to make a decision quickly is dictated by respect to candidates since we don't want to make people wait any longer than necessary. So again, how is this an indication of poor culture?

If you really believe you have a good culture, and attract the best talent, you should be able to offer your best candidate the position and wait for them to decline or accept. Other candidates may move on if you tell them you've extended an offer and are waiting to hear back, but forcing someones hand is a poor culture indicator, and being in a rush to hire in the majority of the cases indicates lack of planning.
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