Live data from Hacker News

Common mistakes in salary negotiation

interviewing.io

381–390 of 467 posts

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you avoid wasting your time doing interviews Simple. Only interview with companies you'd like to work with so much that you'd be willing to negotiate from a starting offer 2/3rds of what you want. When your interest in the company is sufficient, you'll be motivated to tell them that their offer is "a good starting point for discussion" and then make a counter-offer or ask for additional vacation, bonuses, or…

This may seem like I'm being dismissive but I don't want to work anywhere. I work because I have bills that need to be paid. I don't derive enjoyment from making other people wealthy. I legitimately cannot think of such a state as enjoying work nor enjoying working at any given company in particular. Do you, and if so how did you cultivate that? If you don't mind answering.

Hello, I work in the games industry. You basically need some self-fulfillment to not burn out, be it in designing/implementing gameplay features, digging deep into some graphics/hardware level instructions to optimize, or simply working alongside non-programmers (artists, sound designers, VA's, writers, etc. Very diverse environment) to get something beyond a technical project finished.

How to cultivate that is pretty straightforward. I like games, and I can tolerate making games by leveraging my existing skills. I want to make my own games one day, but I need more financial stability for that. Of course, I can't say I feel as passionate about making someone else's game as I would my own, but industry gives me experience, lets me meet other kinds of talent, and lets me prepare savings for that day I try to do my own thing. That's how I keep motivation going.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He who cares the least controls the situation.

Similarly, not hitting a gift horse in the mouth is a good idea.

I thought it was looking a gift horse in the mouth. Something about gum health being indicative of the age or health of the horse, and it being disrespectful to critically examine a gift in front of the giver.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#383
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of strategy seems a bizarre one for a company. "Let's figure out how to systematically pay our employees less than they're really worth." How is that any kind of long-term plan? To really move the needle you'd have to do it a LOT -- but then you've selected on employees who lack knowledge about their own power. Those are going to be systematically different (probably not in a good way?) from employees who a…

> you've selected on employees who lack knowledge about their own power Which is the majority of employees. Because... > employees who are more proactive and entrepreneurial about negotiating ...aren't going to remain employees for too long; they are going to end up starting their own businesses because they realize that the upside is so much greater. Which means, first, that, to them, the job at your company is not…

>>because they realize that the upside is so much greater.

the risks are also greater, I am 100% proactive about salary, I am 100% pretty aggressive and "disagreeable" (in the psych meaning of the term) about it as well

I however am not entrepreneurial because I have no desire to have that liability, or risk. I prefer working for a company instead of owning the company

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#384

So weird to me to focus so much on the money. I care about what the company does and what I'll be contributing to that much more. Choosing based on salary offered seems like a recipe to always be in jobs you hate. Also, I usually have a job, and then nay apply to another when something interesting comes up. Isn't that more common than the situation of interviewing with four companies at the same time while not having…

If you don't care about money, there is no way an article called "Common mistakes in salary negotiation" will ever be helpful to you. This is not a fault in the article, though.

Well, I still care about my salary and need to negotiate it. Just in the context of a single job that I would like to have.

The article is supposedly about salary negotiation, but it only considers the case where all jobs are interchangeable except for the money.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#385
>The main question recruiters ask up front about money is: “What are your compensation expectations?” They claim that it’s because they want to make sure that you’re not so far off in your expectations that interviewing with that company would be a waste of time. This is a nonsense reason — very few companies pay so much below market that it would be a nonstarter.

Of course there are, lol.

e.g "software houses" in Poland

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#386
post #162
post #73

So this is the exact same problem with Realtors. They will say that they have a fiducial responsibility to represent you and that they will try to get you the best price (either the most or least, depending on whether they are on the selling or buying side, respectfully). And they will do that, to some limited extent. But really their incentive is to close the deal . And that means telling you that this is the best p…

According to Freaknomics, realtors get about 3% higher average closing prices on their own properties than when they're representing you as a customer. That is the delta when it is their money on the line vs yours.

A lot of the time a seller is not really trying to maximize their sale price.

They start out trying to but then time drags on and they “just want it to be done.” At that point the seller is also prioritizing a deal over maximization.

Agents, since they’ve gone through a tonne of these processes, are more immune to the mental load the sale takes on them. I’d bet they’re less likely to try and blow through those final steps.

You can see this kind of thing play out across industries. In SW, a comparison may be the seasoned dev has no problem ripping apart their candidate solution and rewriting it since that process takes them less effort than the junior.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#387
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read "place you at the highest comp package they can" to mean "place you at the employer that will give you the highest comp package they can". So if they think you're good enough for clearlydoomed.io who pay 175k and GigaTech who pay 200k, but not Risk Securities who pay 300k, they will push you towards MegaTech.

It depends. "they can" is doing a lot of work in the original claim. If A, B and C are the companies involved, with respective pay rates of 175k, 200k and 300k, it's still going to be better for the recruiter to try you at all three, because that is very little extra work for the commission involved. However, if B is more circumspect about hiring and always takes a month to make a decision while always A comes back w…

But in order to close the deal you have to agree as well, it's not only up to the recruiter.

So if you are only prepared to go for jobs that pay 300k, why not tell the recruiter that?

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#388
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Portfolios" in some form are often necessary. (In my space, writing samples.) If you have those ready to go, easier for everyone! But if you don't have a relevant portfolio, you'll need to either put something together or I'll pass. (I'm not really looking for a specific assignment but just something that's representative of the type of work.)

why would a software dev have a portfolio? The comparison to design or writing doesn't make sense. A graphic designer can point to logos or marketing material that is publicly available. I'm not going to put proprietary code on a portfolio nor am I going to spend multiple years building some open source project when I already have a full time job. Software engineering must be the only profession where employment hist…

Sure, employment history matters. But, if you're in a field where some job-seekers can point to relevant concrete work products they've created they may have an advantage over those who can't. Maybe that's not fair but it's the way it often is.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#389
post #374
post #331

There is only one rule when talking about job, or essentially anything in life, if you wan to win. And that is - always be ready to walk out. This mostly means able, not just willing. Never put yourself in a position where you are cornered and have no way out. This is where "fuck you money" comes in, usually. If you know you will have food on the table, roof above your head and a bed to sleep in, your perspective wil…

> when it comes to jobs, always look for a job while employed I have never done this. Sure, I might have missed out on summer cash, but I enjoyed the breaks between the jobs immensely.

Those are not mutually exclusive, you can specify a starting date one year ahead of signing the offer, if the company is not in a hurry. At least where I live. Then you have bargaining power and vacation at the same time.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. "they can" is doing a lot of work in the original claim. If A, B and C are the companies involved, with respective pay rates of 175k, 200k and 300k, it's still going to be better for the recruiter to try you at all three, because that is very little extra work for the commission involved. However, if B is more circumspect about hiring and always takes a month to make a decision while always A comes back w…

But in order to close the deal you have to agree as well, it's not only up to the recruiter. So if you are only prepared to go for jobs that pay 300k, why not tell the recruiter that?

> So if you are only prepared to go for jobs that pay 300k, why not tell the recruiter that?

I did not address any of that (revealing your price, etc).

All I am pointing out is that it is in the recruiters best interest to get you to accept quickly, and that often means "accept less".

Post reply on HN