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66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

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Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#341

Post by Mordisquitos »

pandaman wrote: post #326
Mordisquitos wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, I'm amazed at the very idea of having a specific number of available sick days which I understand is the standard in the US. How on Earth is that something that is expected to be planned and accounted for by the employee? How can one "run out of" sick days? How do I see stories about US workers "donating" their unused sick leave days to a colleague with cancer or other long illness? I'm too lazy to look up the…

"Sick days" means the company will pay you for that number of days missed being ill, if you are ill for longer then you will have to make a claim against your short term disability insurance and long term disability after that. So it's kinda like Spain except you get paid for the first 1-3 days (namely the "sick days" from your company) and then get paid in full eventually cutting down to 60% by the insurance.

Ah, thanks. It sounds like the logic of short term disability insurance from Social Security works similarly in both countries. The main difference appears to be that in the US the onus is on the worker to expressly make the claim and do the paperwork to receive payment from disability insurance, while in Spain the process is transparent for the worker, who superficially continues to receive payment from their employer even though the funds are ultimately coming from SS.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#342

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

ballenf wrote: post #313
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which causes companies to be very slow in hiring people, because if business turns they have less flexibility. This is not entirely true. They are more considerate in hiring which means layoffs, including mass layoffs, happen more rarely as they have consequences. But they can fire people (and they do) when things go bad. This is one of most common reasons for firing people. What they cannot do is to fire me today…

I don't think you showed any part of the statement being untrue. Kinda seems like you're just arguing that being very slow to hire has big advantages.

Sorry for being unclear: my point was about the "if business turns they have less flexibility" part (apart from, as you noticed, being of the opinion that overhiring is not a good business practice).

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#343

Post by ChatGTP »

mmmmmbop wrote: post #251
ChatGTP wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you pay tax in Europe while in the US, or just do the parasitical thing?

How would you go about paying tax in Europe while in the US? The European countries I'm familiar with will not consider you a tax resident while living abroad, so they won't allow you to pay taxes.

I get this way of living is personally advantageous but it's pretty shitty right?

Work in the USA, pay lower tax there and get higher salary, fly back to Europe and take advantage of everyone's contributions to get yourself free healthcare while having contributed nothing yourself ?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#344

Post by zer0tonin »

emptysongglass wrote: post #123
zer0tonin wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Americans also are quite delusional about how low the European salaries are. Getting six figures in Europe isn't particularly hard anymore.

I am European: our wages are much, much lower than our American tech counterparts, without taxes double, with taxes we're on average making a third of them. And that's same cost of living.

It's absolutely not the same cost of living.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#345

Post by gymbeaux »

lionkor wrote: post #4

> While the average American is lucky to get 11 vacation days WHAT? Does that count sick days as well, or is that a myth? Here in Germany, I get 30 vacation days per calendar year, plus any sick days, and thats fairly normal. Edit: Sure the absolute salaries here are lower, but the cost of living is vastly different and the social support structures and healthcare are different, too. That should definitely be kept in…

I’ve been a software engineer for around 8 years and have had 5 different employers. One (Allstate) allowed us to buy more than the 15 vacation days, and gave us a few sick days I believe. They upped you to 20 after the first year, which is somewhat common in my experience. But no other job I’ve had, including 2 startups, gave sick days.

Microsoft, motherfucking Microsoft, starts you off at 15 days of PTO per year. I’m not really sure why people are itching to work there.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#346

Post by gymbeaux »

emptysongglass wrote: post #215
maccard wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While all the sentences you wrote are technically correct, your point is wrong. > you'll be working right up until our government mandated retirement age As will an american, unless they're going to go without healthcare? Unless you're doing some _wild_ saving, paying for health insurance as you age is going to necessitate working. Health insurance for a couple (assuming you can get it and it covers anything that you…

You don't need to do _wild_ savings to retire at an age where you can enjoy your health in the US, as a tech worker. Cost of living is skyrocketing where in the US and to what degree higher than its EU equivalent? The EU has borne the brunt of inflation so I'm having a hard time seeing where EU citizens are paying less to live than Americans. > The horror. Personally, I'll take stagnant economic growth over statistic…

Even software engineers are not guaranteed a cushy retirement. Everyone assumes the stock market averages a return of 7-9% per year, but there have been periods of a decade or more where the return was 0 or negative, not just in other countries stock markets, but the US as well. If the stock market, for whatever reason, stays flat for the next even 10 years, which has happened before, it will severely limit even SWE retirement savings by the time they reach 55 1/2 years old. Part of the issue is there are so many limitations to retirement savings. How much you can contribute. Whether you can contribute (if you are not provided a 401k from your employer, you can’t put away anywhere near $20k/year for retirement). Then there’s social security. “Everyone” says that won’t exist in 30 years, so why am I paying into it? Why am I forced to pay into it? I should be able to opt out if I’m maxing out my 401k every year. It’s a broken system to be sure.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#347

Post by pandaman »

Mordisquitos wrote: post #341
pandaman wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sick days" means the company will pay you for that number of days missed being ill, if you are ill for longer then you will have to make a claim against your short term disability insurance and long term disability after that. So it's kinda like Spain except you get paid for the first 1-3 days (namely the "sick days" from your company) and then get paid in full eventually cutting down to 60% by the insurance.

Ah, thanks. It sounds like the logic of short term disability insurance from Social Security works similarly in both countries. The main difference appears to be that in the US the onus is on the worker to expressly make the claim and do the paperwork to receive payment from disability insurance, while in Spain the process is transparent for the worker, who superficially continues to receive payment from their employ…

SSDI is not a short term, short term disability is a private insurance, usually provided as a benefit, but also available for purchase yourself.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#348

Post by memefrog »

speedgoose wrote: post #337
memefrog wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Income tax is by far the largest and most significant tax, and I gave examples of other taxes in which the rich pay far more. Do you really think the poor pay the most company tax?

Alright. I’m not very aware of the taxes in USA. In France VAT and company taxes are more important. Rich people don’t pay company taxes either. Companies pay companies taxes.

[dead]

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#349

Post by mmmmmbop »

ChatGTP wrote: post #343
mmmmmbop wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you go about paying tax in Europe while in the US? The European countries I'm familiar with will not consider you a tax resident while living abroad, so they won't allow you to pay taxes.

I get this way of living is personally advantageous but it's pretty shitty right? Work in the USA, pay lower tax there and get higher salary, fly back to Europe and take advantage of everyone's contributions to get yourself free healthcare while having contributed nothing yourself ?

If you were just trying to make that point, your previous comment comes across as a snarky leading question. From the HN guidelines:

> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.

In any case, it doesn't seem fair to frame it the way you did. If a high-earning engineer spends 5-10 years in the US to build wealth before returning to Europe to work at a 250k€ job for 7 more years before finally retiring, they'll still have contributed more in income taxes and social contributions in their home country during those 7 years than the median employee during their lifetime. At the same time, they will receive much lower state pensions since they only contributed for 7 years, and they will never take advantage of the unemployment benefits they contributed to.

This is ignoring other contributions such as VAT on their personal consumption (which will likely be higher than average) and on the consumption of their relatives they may support. There's also the non-negligible aspect of bringing highly specialized knowledge and expertise back to their home country, which may increase the country's productivity by second order effects.

Finally, at least in the two European countries I'm familiar with, Switzerland and Germany, you'll still have to pay monthly premiums for the "free health care" until retirement age.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#350

Post by emptysongglass »

zer0tonin wrote: post #344
emptysongglass wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am European: our wages are much, much lower than our American tech counterparts, without taxes double, with taxes we're on average making a third of them. And that's same cost of living.

It's absolutely not the same cost of living.

I don't know where you're living but in Copenhagen, yes it is, 100% the same COL as LA or Seattle.
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