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66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

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Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#241

Post by glimshe »

EoinB wrote: post #142

I was born and educated in Scotland, worked in the UK for a decade or so, then moved to the US and worked for big tech for 15 years while living in the US and becoming a US citizen. I then chose to move back to Scotland, where I continue to work for the same US big tech company but get paid UK wages with UK employment benefits. So, I've lived significant portions of my life on both sides. Here in the UK, I get 29 day…

I work in a major tech company and never check email outside work hours, which I cap at 40 hours a week. I never work weekends, never check work during weekends or vacations.

I make much more than my European peers, have a better car, better weather and bigger house. I have 25 days of paid vacation. While this is better than the US average, I don't know a single person in my friends group wanting to trade the US for Europe, including my Europe-born friends.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#242

Post by unmole »

pjmlp wrote: post #239
unmole wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech salaries in Europe are a joke. The median IT salary in Germany is less than what I'm paid in India. That's in absolute dollar terms. Factor in the difference in cost of living and the disparity becomes comical.

Ah, that is why all TCS, Infosys and Wipro folks I work with, rather get a way to stay in Germany than go back home, what a set of fouls giving up on such salaries.

Right, because it's not like there are FAAG development centres or a home grown startup ecosystem in India. Oh, wait.

The fact that you work with WITCH companies says more about your situation than anything else, TBH.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#243

Post by FirmwareBurner »

xetifafa wrote: post #236
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't rents there insane?

Not as bad as Berlin, Munich or Hamburg. I split around 1k€ (warm) for a newly remodeled/renovated 60m2 apartment in a very hip area close to the city center.

So the total rent is 1k or 2k?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#244

Post by FirmwareBurner »

cloogshicer wrote: post #35
lionkor wrote: post #4

> While the average American is lucky to get 11 vacation days WHAT? Does that count sick days as well, or is that a myth? Here in Germany, I get 30 vacation days per calendar year, plus any sick days, and thats fairly normal. Edit: Sure the absolute salaries here are lower, but the cost of living is vastly different and the social support structures and healthcare are different, too. That should definitely be kept in…

Exactly. I live in a big European city. You basically don't need a car - pretty much anything within the city is reachable in about 30min, and public transit is comfy. Also, I have a public transit ticket that allows me to travel the entire country for a year, which only cost about 1000€. Yes, salaries are lower, but I also don't have to save anything to get my kids through university, or keep emergency funds for hea…

In which country?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#245

Post by mmmmmbop »

janosdebugs wrote: post #231
armitron wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As will an american, unless they're going to go without healthcare? Unless you're doing some _wild_ saving, paying for health insurance as you age is going to necessitate working. In the US, most highly-skilled senior engineers will be multi-millionaires in their 40s which means that they can immediately retire and pay out of pocket for private health insurance covering the entire family without even making a dent…

Dunno, I've met several senior engineers whom I would consider highly skilled and while they were well off, it didn't look like they are multi-millionaires. Also, given the trend of firing senior engineers and hiring only juniors lately, I wouldn't count on that trend continuing.

I've noticed the opposite trend. Right now, it's hard to find a position as a junior, whereas seniors are still in demand.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#246

Post by FirmwareBurner »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #203
BlargMcLarg wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you burn out your employees Burn out in Europe is still omnipresent and rising these days. This includes Germany, the 'chosen child' every proponent points at in these discussions. A few weeks off barely makes a dent in this and vacation days / time off hasn't been that noticeably different since the 70s/80s. >Japan That's just a law that pushes them to use it and keeps companies from going 'ah yeah difficult'. I…

> Burn out in Europe is still omnipresent and rising these days From what I know, I work for a very large insurance company, it's mostly healthcare department due to consequences of COVID. Which shouldn't have happened, but it id. > This include Germany, the 'chosen child' every proponent points at in these discussions I'm not German and I do not particularly trust Germany, in fact I think it's one of the worst Weste…

>I work 220 days/year and I'm off 145 days, it's pretty standard here if you have a standard contract

Where is that, that you get 145 days of vacation?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#247

Post by mmmmmbop »

apexalpha wrote: post #211
jdthedisciple wrote: post #204

I'll take 5x the salary over a measly 20 extra vacation days any day, thanks. 70k a year for a highly skilled software dev is an absolute joke. At least that allows me to generate wealth and retire 20-30 years sooner compared to your average German.

German retirement age is 66. So unless you are very young I guess you're retired now? How's that going? Also congrats on the $350,000 salary as a dev at the age of 30. There's no one in Europe making that as dev, not even in the Netherlands or Switzerland, not even close!

In Switzerland, top companies will pay $350k+ for senior engineers and above.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#248

Post by pjmlp »

unmole wrote: post #242
pjmlp wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, that is why all TCS, Infosys and Wipro folks I work with, rather get a way to stay in Germany than go back home, what a set of fouls giving up on such salaries.

Right, because it's not like there are FAAG development centres or a home grown startup ecosystem in India. Oh, wait. The fact that you work with WITCH companies says more about your situation than anything else, TBH.

Right, because it's not like there are FAAG development centres or a home grown startup ecosystem in Europe. Oh, wait.

The fact that you have expressed prejudice against people in WITCH companies says more about your situation than anything else, TBH.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#249

Post by jdthedisciple »

mmmmmbop wrote: post #247
apexalpha wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German retirement age is 66. So unless you are very young I guess you're retired now? How's that going? Also congrats on the $350,000 salary as a dev at the age of 30. There's no one in Europe making that as dev, not even in the Netherlands or Switzerland, not even close!

In Switzerland, top companies will pay $350k+ for senior engineers and above.

Right, with simultaneously lower tax rates.

None of the alleged benefits in Germany offset or justify the discrepancies to similarly developed countries.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#250

Post by jakewins »

ChatGTP wrote: post #199
jakewins wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you can do this math yourself pretty fast: US median software eng salary is about $170k/yr, German one is $80. Both will include full health benefits etc. With 5 weeks paid vacation in DE and 2 weeks in US, that would be $170k for 50 weeks if work vs $80k for 47 weeks. Not counting US taxes being lower and looking only at gross pay, that’s about $1.7K/week in DE vs $3.4K/week in the US. So after correcting fo…

You do know that the majority of Americans aren't software engineers on ridiculous packages right? Real actual engineers who build roads and power grids make way less money and have way less benefits while IMO doing much more important work than 90% of software engineers even understand. Please take into account the real world before commenting on how good things are for everyone?

Before you write these holier-than-though, I-know-the-plight-of-the-common-man comments: check your intuition, are the things they told us in school growing up in Northern Europe still true?

I used SE salaries because this is HN. What does a ”real world” worker actually make?

If you look up the national median salaries you will find the median US worker makes more than the median German household, or more than twice the individual German worker for the same job.

So the exact same math I just did applies on the national statistics as well. Maybe it’s worth thinking about why it feels so important that this isn’t true, that northern EU workers surely must be much better off than their suffering US counterparts. The truth is much more complex than that.

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