Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 353 posts

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#221

Post by jdthedisciple »

apexalpha wrote: post #211
jdthedisciple wrote: post #204

I'll take 5x the salary over a measly 20 extra vacation days any day, thanks. 70k a year for a highly skilled software dev is an absolute joke. At least that allows me to generate wealth and retire 20-30 years sooner compared to your average German.

German retirement age is 66. So unless you are very young I guess you're retired now? How's that going? Also congrats on the $350,000 salary as a dev at the age of 30. There's no one in Europe making that as dev, not even in the Netherlands or Switzerland, not even close!

Meh, $350k is good but comparatively not even too much in some areas of the US, like NY or SF.

> There's no one in Europe making that as dev, not even in the Netherlands or Switzerland, not even close!

Exactly! Which is ridiculous! And people always bring up "free healthcare!" as a counter but it doesn't really offset this vast discrepancy for someone with a generally healthy lifestyle. How are people in Europe wage-slaving like that all their life?

Edit: Lest it is misunderstood, this is not to demean the people. Rather, it is meant to critique the system. Free healthcare shouldn't mean having to give up indefinitely more in other regards. Furthermore, I'm sure European corporations too make millions and billions of €€ every year, so why can't they afford to pay competitively? Lastly taxes are obviously way too high and the pension rates are ridiculous for working 40-50 yrs. In short I'm critiquing the whole system.

Just imagine, you have the same skill, same daily struggles, same effort, same trouble waking up in the morning... but you make in a day what your mirror in another place makes in an hour.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#222

Post by speedgoose »

k_kelly wrote: post #106
speedgoose wrote: post #52

I’m concerned about the 21% who don’t want a better quality of life. What’s going on with them?

Strangely enough if you asked Europeans if they wanted high American Salaries they would also say yes. The question is loaded and I guess 21% can think it through (or their company already gives them better).

We are talking about a few weeks of holidays, it’s something they can afford. Europeans can. The people that already have better and don’t want the same for everyone are selfish and not thinking much about what could happen to them in the future.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#223

Post by apexalpha »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #221
apexalpha wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German retirement age is 66. So unless you are very young I guess you're retired now? How's that going? Also congrats on the $350,000 salary as a dev at the age of 30. There's no one in Europe making that as dev, not even in the Netherlands or Switzerland, not even close!

Meh, $350k is good but comparatively not even too much in some areas of the US, like NY or SF. > There's no one in Europe making that as dev, not even in the Netherlands or Switzerland, not even close! Exactly! Which is ridiculous! And people always bring up "free healthcare!" as a counter but it doesn't really offset this vast discrepancy for someone with a generally healthy lifestyle. How are people in Europe wage-…

It's not that bad. I make roughly €80k in the Netherlands as a medior ethical hacker.

I pay 33% in taxes on that income. But that 33% includes healthcare, retirement, school, university, etc... I'm currently enjoying 20 weeks paid time off this year to spend with my newborn. Also I only work 4 days a week, on top of the 5 weeks holiday every year.

I'm sure some devs in the US could also set this up for themselves and still come out on top, but in the Netherlands everyone gets this (not the 80k, but the society benefits). Which is worth something, too.

What is there to do except 'wage-slave' like this? We're just born here and make the best of it. :)

Plus you have to take into account that the difference is much smaller when accounting for PPP. Still you won't hear me complain to get all this AND a US salary, perhaps something remote in the future.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#224

Post by speedgoose »

db48x wrote: post #89
speedgoose wrote: post #52

I’m concerned about the 21% who don’t want a better quality of life. What’s going on with them?

The survey didn’t ask about “quality of life”, it asked about paid days off. Many people would rather have more money to pay for the things that they want instead of more days off. It’s as simple as that; different people weigh the value of things differently.

I’m concerned about the life priorities of such people.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#225

Post by lionkor »

jakewins wrote: post #63
lionkor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the US salary hold up against the benefits you get in a well-off EU country? Namely free healthcare, automatic payments into pension fund, strong social system if you're ever in trouble, etc.? It seems to me that, as high as US salaries are, they arent that much higher compared to European salaries when you factor all this in, plus the face that a month of that work youre paid for youre OOO

I think you can do this math yourself pretty fast: US median software eng salary is about $170k/yr, German one is $80. Both will include full health benefits etc. With 5 weeks paid vacation in DE and 2 weeks in US, that would be $170k for 50 weeks if work vs $80k for 47 weeks. Not counting US taxes being lower and looking only at gross pay, that’s about $1.7K/week in DE vs $3.4K/week in the US. So after correcting fo…

In germany you can be a cashier and be healthy, have a good work life balance, etc. its not all about software devs

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#226

Post by speedgoose »

mmmmmbop wrote: post #104
speedgoose wrote: post #52

I’m concerned about the 21% who don’t want a better quality of life. What’s going on with them?

It seems a bit disingenuous to frame it that way. Perhaps they are just mindful of the consequences, e.g. increased costs. There was a referendum in Switzerland on increasing the minimum annual leave from four weeks to six, and two thirds of voters rejected it. [0] The major argument against it was the anticipated cost to the economy. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17335444

Thanks, now I’m concerned about the Swiss population too. They are already collecting wealth so much in their OP position on the map and they are too cheap to take more holidays?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#227

Post by lionkor »

Longhanks wrote: post #21
lionkor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the US salary hold up against the benefits you get in a well-off EU country? Namely free healthcare, automatic payments into pension fund, strong social system if you're ever in trouble, etc.? It seems to me that, as high as US salaries are, they arent that much higher compared to European salaries when you factor all this in, plus the face that a month of that work youre paid for youre OOO

For Germany: "Free" as in waiting for months to get an appointment with a specialist? "Pension fund" as in gigantic ponzi scheme that requires 30% of the state‘s yearly budget, with no party having any kind of plan how to save the system? "Strong social system" as in being taken advantage of with the world‘s second highest taxes? Sure, I’d rather be super poor in Europe than in the US. But anybody above the poorest,…

The specialist waiting times are a pain, yeah, but its free. If I break my leg in an accident, need to go to hospital by ambulance or heli, get my leg fixed, followed by rehabilitation, thats also free, except for having to pay a maximum of 5€ on meds you are prescribed when you buy them.

Strong social system just means that whatever happens to you, you can live in a home and eat food, as long as you try to get government benefits of some kind. Or for example, as a student, your costs of living are covered by Bafög, which is a kind of loan you pack back 50% of.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#228

Post by kramerger »

renewiltord wrote: post #31
kramerger wrote: post #14

It has been shown that you need around 14 days of interrupted rest to recover from stress etc. The European laws are not some random thing we made up because we are lazy. It is to ensure workers are well rested and ready for a new working year. Hence in long term it will also benefit employers. Some personal anecdata: I notice an immediate difference when I come back after a long vacation. The first 2-3 months I work…

How long is that long term because there aren't that many great European companies.

That's a fair point.

But as a worker, do I care where companies have their headquarters? All major tech companies have offices in Europe anyway

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#229

Post by speedgoose »

memefrog wrote: post #133
0xDEF wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Americans want the same quality of life as we have here in Denmark they should tax the top 20% more so it doesn't surprise me that the top 20% come out against things like higher taxes and more worker rights. I'm probably among the top 5% here in Denmark and I'm fine with paying high taxes.

You can't tax your way to wealth. Taxing the rich more won't make the quality of life of the average person better. The rich already pay the OVERWHELMING majority of tax.

The rich wouldn’t be rich without poorer people. Also I’m a bit dubious about your statement, it goes against what I can quickly search for but I would gladly be proven wrong.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#230

Post by janosdebugs »

throw0101b wrote: post #206
cloogshicer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I live in a big European city. You basically don't need a car - pretty much anything within the city is reachable in about 30min, and public transit is comfy. Also, I have a public transit ticket that allows me to travel the entire country for a year, which only cost about 1000€. Yes, salaries are lower, but I also don't have to save anything to get my kids through university, or keep emergency funds for hea…

> Also, I can't just get fired without cause. And if I do get laid off, I have 3 months of grace period, plus potentially years of unemployment money. Which causes companies to be very slow in hiring people, because if business turns they have less flexibility. European countries have some of the highest (youth) unemployment rates in the OECD: * https://data.oecd.org/unemp/youth-unemployment-rate.htm * https://www.oe…

In Austria AFAIK one can get fired without cause, but if I'm reading this correctly, there doesn't seem to be a massive difference in unemployment against the EU baseline. (Am I reading this right?)
Post reply on HN