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66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

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Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#101
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reaching 50 years old, never got this American complaint about our salaries. The whole package is what matters. We work to live, not live to work.

I think Americans also are quite delusional about how low the European salaries are. Getting six figures in Europe isn't particularly hard anymore.

Probably as hard as getting $200k in the States though... "Six figures" just aren't what they used to be.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#102
post #7

As much as I like my vacations, I would rather prefer US salary over it.

Does the US salary hold up against the benefits you get in a well-off EU country? Namely free healthcare, automatic payments into pension fund, strong social system if you're ever in trouble, etc.? It seems to me that, as high as US salaries are, they arent that much higher compared to European salaries when you factor all this in, plus the face that a month of that work youre paid for youre OOO

My understanding is that yes, they generally do. The pay gap is too large. Levels.fyi says my role at the same company makes 360k USD total comp here vs 224k USD total comp in Germany, and that's with somewhat lower taxes.

Of course, the societal benefit of strong social systems though aren't really comparable to an individual's benefits in my opinion if we're just asking where someone will be better off. Individually, I'm not sure what it's worth to me either, although there is some level of private equivalents through disability insurance etc., though it's certainly not as comprehensive I imagine. I don't know how the pension works exactly, but my impression is that it's something like a 401K retirement plan in the US, where you put in some portion and your employer also matches some contribution amount.

So I'm not sure the different in benefits makes up for the 136k gap.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#103
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I live in a big European city. You basically don't need a car - pretty much anything within the city is reachable in about 30min, and public transit is comfy. Also, I have a public transit ticket that allows me to travel the entire country for a year, which only cost about 1000€. Yes, salaries are lower, but I also don't have to save anything to get my kids through university, or keep emergency funds for hea…

Parents have to pay for university in Europe unless they are poor. And while there are no fees, the costs are typically between 30k and 100k per child. edit: In Germany. I‘m German and I have studied there. I should know. edit2: Someone said this comment could be interpreted as the cost per year which is not the case. This is the total cost.

> edit: In Germany. I‘m German and I have studied there. I should know.

I am also there and I didn't pay any monies anywhere for university(unless you mean fancy private university?). All state universities are free and we only paid some misely amount every 6 months for the city-ticket(free access to all public transport in the city, cool stuff). Also, state pays each child ~125/month until they are 25.

I believe you are in some different parallel universe entirely O.o

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#104

I’m concerned about the 21% who don’t want a better quality of life. What’s going on with them?

It seems a bit disingenuous to frame it that way. Perhaps they are just mindful of the consequences, e.g. increased costs. There was a referendum in Switzerland on increasing the minimum annual leave from four weeks to six, and two thirds of voters rejected it. [0] The major argument against it was the anticipated cost to the economy.

[0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17335444

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#105
post #97
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents have to pay for university in Europe unless they are poor. And while there are no fees, the costs are typically between 30k and 100k per child. edit: In Germany. I‘m German and I have studied there. I should know. edit2: Someone said this comment could be interpreted as the cost per year which is not the case. This is the total cost.

There's no single policy that applies in all European countries. In a lot of countries there's no tuition fee (I live in one of them and went to university here), in some there's a token fee per year (a few hundred euros), and in some others students have to be fairly substantial tuition fees. Nothing close to the numbers you're quoting though. $10-20k per year is the highest I've ever heard of for public universitie…

As I said in my comment it has nothing to do with tuition fees.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#106

I’m concerned about the 21% who don’t want a better quality of life. What’s going on with them?

Strangely enough if you asked Europeans if they wanted high American Salaries they would also say yes.

The question is loaded and I guess 21% can think it through (or their company already gives them better).

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#107
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of having money if you don't have the time to spend it?

You know you can take unpaid vacations, right?

Unless you're hired 'at will'. Then your manager can fire you for taking vacation.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#108
It's also worth pointing out that, in many European countries (Nordics, Italy, probably Germany as well?) it's perfectly ok to just take say most of July or August off, along with everyone else. It's disruptive to the business (to the point that it's taken into account when planning things), esp. in complex companies, where a couple of key managers or architects missing means an entire initiative can stall for the duration- but it's part of the culture and business owners are just accepting this.

Also, even the senior key people are often not really expected to answers emails during vacation. It might be different at the director level and above, but they're pretty much all workaholics anyway, so they don't mind.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#109
post #87
post #4

> While the average American is lucky to get 11 vacation days WHAT? Does that count sick days as well, or is that a myth? Here in Germany, I get 30 vacation days per calendar year, plus any sick days, and thats fairly normal. Edit: Sure the absolute salaries here are lower, but the cost of living is vastly different and the social support structures and healthcare are different, too. That should definitely be kept in…

> Here in Germany, I get 30 vacation days per calendar year, plus any sick days, and thats fairly normal. Sick days are fairly normal, but "30 vacation days" is not. Only bigCo/large places offer 30(some offered 35 days too). Usual is 25(state normal) with +1-2 days extra at most places. However, sick leave is godsend, no denying.

Yes 25 is very common but still more than 2x what Americans typically get

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#110
post #4

> While the average American is lucky to get 11 vacation days WHAT? Does that count sick days as well, or is that a myth? Here in Germany, I get 30 vacation days per calendar year, plus any sick days, and thats fairly normal. Edit: Sure the absolute salaries here are lower, but the cost of living is vastly different and the social support structures and healthcare are different, too. That should definitely be kept in…

Exactly. I live in a big European city. You basically don't need a car - pretty much anything within the city is reachable in about 30min, and public transit is comfy. Also, I have a public transit ticket that allows me to travel the entire country for a year, which only cost about 1000€. Yes, salaries are lower, but I also don't have to save anything to get my kids through university, or keep emergency funds for hea…

Salaries are so much lower than our American counterparts you'll be working right up until our government mandated retirement age, which is increasing. Our economic growth across the EU is stagnant. These are not things to be celebrated.
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