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66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

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Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#91

Post by FartyMcFarter »

jacobgorm wrote: post #8
lionkor wrote: post #4

> While the average American is lucky to get 11 vacation days WHAT? Does that count sick days as well, or is that a myth? Here in Germany, I get 30 vacation days per calendar year, plus any sick days, and thats fairly normal. Edit: Sure the absolute salaries here are lower, but the cost of living is vastly different and the social support structures and healthcare are different, too. That should definitely be kept in…

When I first joined a US startup, they said "you can take unlimited PTO -- we suggest starting with a week per year"... I negotiated that up to the five weeks that are standard here in Denmark.

"Unlimited PTO" is a red flag for me. It means that PTO will be governed by pressure, self-pressure and shame.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#92

Post by tommek4077 »

osclarto wrote: post #55
ghosty141 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany it is actually mandated by law that you take two consecutive weeks of vacation in a year!

I've lived in Germany the last few years, I never heard of this, not saying it's not true but it's defo not enforced

It totally depends on the company. But if pull something like burnout, you should be careful to cover your story why you were not able to relax properly.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#93

Post by nxm »

speedgoose wrote: post #52

I’m concerned about the 21% who don’t want a better quality of life. What’s going on with them?

They realize there is no such thing as free lunch. It’s an additional cost incurred by the employers that will translate into lower pay.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#94

Post by lqet »

quonn wrote: post #62
cloogshicer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I live in a big European city. You basically don't need a car - pretty much anything within the city is reachable in about 30min, and public transit is comfy. Also, I have a public transit ticket that allows me to travel the entire country for a year, which only cost about 1000€. Yes, salaries are lower, but I also don't have to save anything to get my kids through university, or keep emergency funds for hea…

Parents have to pay for university in Europe unless they are poor. And while there are no fees, the costs are typically between 30k and 100k per child. edit: In Germany. I‘m German and I have studied there. I should know. edit2: Someone said this comment could be interpreted as the cost per year which is not the case. This is the total cost.

What? My parents send me the child allowance ("Kindergeld") they received for me for the 6 years I was at university, plus 100 EUR/month. I also had a regular job earning 450 EUR per month, so I had around 700-800 EUR of income per month with a 240 EUR rent. Tuition was 500 EUR per semester, so around 80 EUR/month. I was health insured for free via the insurance of my parents. I had around 300-400 EUR per month for food, electricity, and internet, which was more than enough for a single nerd. I financed vacations etc. via freelance work and savings from jobs I had when I was in school and my civil service. This was in Germany from 2008 to 2014.

Overall, I estimate that my university education cost my parents around 7000 EUR. And this wasn't even educational costs, but mostly living expenses.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#95

Post by anonzzzies »

renewiltord wrote: post #31
kramerger wrote: post #14

It has been shown that you need around 14 days of interrupted rest to recover from stress etc. The European laws are not some random thing we made up because we are lazy. It is to ensure workers are well rested and ready for a new working year. Hence in long term it will also benefit employers. Some personal anecdata: I notice an immediate difference when I come back after a long vacation. The first 2-3 months I work…

How long is that long term because there aren't that many great European companies.

Weird remark, but anyway; long term doesn't have to be 'great'. It can just be very long running companies. My company is 30 years old. I would say long term means something in that regard and there tons of mum and pop type places that are quite old. My old-aunts company was created in 1945 and still does very well today. Maybe we have less 'trillion$ or quit' mentality? I am happy if all my colleagues get a million euros a year for the rest of their life in my company; we don't need to be the biggest or greatest, we just need to be provide stuff people value and make money so we all can live.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#96

Post by nxm »

zer0tonin wrote: post #54
pjmlp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reaching 50 years old, never got this American complaint about our salaries. The whole package is what matters. We work to live, not live to work.

I think Americans also are quite delusional about how low the European salaries are. Getting six figures in Europe isn't particularly hard anymore.

Yes but what percentage of that ends up getting taxed?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#97

Post by nevon »

quonn wrote: post #62
cloogshicer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I live in a big European city. You basically don't need a car - pretty much anything within the city is reachable in about 30min, and public transit is comfy. Also, I have a public transit ticket that allows me to travel the entire country for a year, which only cost about 1000€. Yes, salaries are lower, but I also don't have to save anything to get my kids through university, or keep emergency funds for hea…

Parents have to pay for university in Europe unless they are poor. And while there are no fees, the costs are typically between 30k and 100k per child. edit: In Germany. I‘m German and I have studied there. I should know. edit2: Someone said this comment could be interpreted as the cost per year which is not the case. This is the total cost.

There's no single policy that applies in all European countries. In a lot of countries there's no tuition fee (I live in one of them and went to university here), in some there's a token fee per year (a few hundred euros), and in some others students have to be fairly substantial tuition fees. Nothing close to the numbers you're quoting though. $10-20k per year is the highest I've ever heard of for public universities in Europe.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#98

Post by morelisp »

tommek4077 wrote: post #84
morelisp wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have this backwards, it was explained to me that the employer cannot refuse a consecutive vacation of up to 2 weeks, not that the employee has an obligation to take it as such.

No, the employee is also required to do that by law.

Got some further info? I can only find reports that this is common misinterpretation.

https://www.rechtsindex.de/arbeitsrecht/490-jahresurlaub-mus...

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#99

Post by quonn »

rpadovani wrote: post #79
quonn wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents have to pay for university in Europe unless they are poor. And while there are no fees, the costs are typically between 30k and 100k per child. edit: In Germany. I‘m German and I have studied there. I should know. edit2: Someone said this comment could be interpreted as the cost per year which is not the case. This is the total cost.

Uhm, what? If you live with your parents, and the university is free, where does that number come from? And if you don't live with your parents, you live with others students, spending 600-1000 euro month for living, how do you reach that numbers?

Bachelor + Masters is 10 semesters usually. 1000 * 12 * 5 = 60.000. Well in the range that I quoted. And depending on the city the actual costs can be more.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#100

Post by ChatGTP »

nxm wrote: post #82
cloogshicer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I live in a big European city. You basically don't need a car - pretty much anything within the city is reachable in about 30min, and public transit is comfy. Also, I have a public transit ticket that allows me to travel the entire country for a year, which only cost about 1000€. Yes, salaries are lower, but I also don't have to save anything to get my kids through university, or keep emergency funds for hea…

Salaries are lower and taxes are significantly higher. Take your pick, but I’d rather take the American approach of a more dynamic job market. I wouldn’t want to deal with low GDP growth, public strikes (see France) and little ability to build wealth.

Anything but low GDP growth, the horror.
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