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Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

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Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#141

Post by christalwang »

lukko wrote: post #134

I always wonder how this can be offered to patients when it seems like it should be classed as a medical device / service and regulated. It's intended for use in a named medical disorder and the guidance is very clear [1] (UK guidelines). It is presented as having an evidence base with trained clinicians, but then the T+Cs state: 'Coaches are not trained or licensed medical professionals and are not qualified to diag…

We also would like this to be covered through reimbursement, however we're not there yet (with ADHD Coaching) and right now it's primarily out of pocket. The team at Well Coaches and other organizations (including ICF, ACO) are working hard to progress the modality.

In terms of cost, we do try our best to keep costs as affordable as possible and have a needs-based financial aid program. We also do a lot of scholarship sponsorships whenever we can with our community partners. We hope to do more in the future (and some are coming in October!)

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#142

Post by christalwang »

aaaaaaa9000 wrote: post #135
lukko wrote: post #134

I always wonder how this can be offered to patients when it seems like it should be classed as a medical device / service and regulated. It's intended for use in a named medical disorder and the guidance is very clear [1] (UK guidelines). It is presented as having an evidence base with trained clinicians, but then the T+Cs state: 'Coaches are not trained or licensed medical professionals and are not qualified to diag…

That was my initial question as well. What are their qualifications for calling themselves ADHD coaches? I'm bombarded with ads from ADHD apps since my diagnosis and I have tried many. None, none at all, have helped me. It's praying on the weak.

The most common certifications for ADHD coaches are from ICF and NB-HWC, although those generic coaching certifications are not just for ADHD. There are targeted training schools / credentials from organizations like iACT as well that are focused on ADHD Coaching. Many of our coaches are trained at iACT but some also have PhDs/masters in ADHD-related fields in addition to generic coaching.

I'm sorry nothing has worked for you so far—I had similar experiences when I was diagnosed. If you're willing to, I'd love to do a free consultation with you to see if we (or any other program our coaches know of) can help! chris@shimmer.care

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#143

Post by p1necone »

christalwang wrote: post #137
p1necone wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We weren't advertising anything that isn't true. We do have qualified mental health professionals on our coaching team (many of them are), but we changed the language so it didn't seem like they were providing medical services at all. The threads here helped us understand how it was coming off (not in terms of true or not, but in terms of how it read/implied) so we switched the ordering. Happy to expand more or chang…

> we changed the language so it didn't seem like they were providing medical services at all

You are providing medical services, trying to claim you aren't is absurd. Changing the wording to claim you aren't to avoid legal liability is exactly the kind of deception people are calling you out on.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#144

Post by jahewson »

rendx wrote: post #93
kelseyfrog wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way the theory is phrased makes it unscientific and the HN community in general tends to be especially critical when that occurs. I also want to add that the scientific-ness of it or not doesn't invalidate it as an explanatory device in your personal journey - they are on orthogonal axes.

I merely asked a question about the team's position on it. To pick a random study of many: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29086104/ "Children with ADHD were more likely than controls to have ever experienced a traumatic event (27 vs 16%; OR: 1.99; 95% CI 1.21, 3.27). This difference remained significant in the adjusted model (OR: 1.76, 95% CI 1.03, 3.01) accounting for child factors (age and gender) and family socio…

If only 27% of ADHD sufferers have experienced childhood trauma then we can be certain that such trauma is not its cause.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#145

Post by christalwang »

ranting-moth wrote: post #46
christalwang wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shimmer is NOT clinical and we do NOT provide licensed medical services. We are most definitely not trying to substitute a real doctor. Full stop. We hope that is clear in all of our communications and website, and do NOT try to obscure that. However, we do a lot of work to work with the right experts (which include clinicians, psychiatrists, etc.) to ensure what we do it safe, follows best practice, is science-backe…

> Shimmer is NOT clinical and we do NOT provide licensed medical services In which case I personally find the phrase "All of our Shimmer ADHD Coaches are licensed or certified mental health professionals" to be quite deceptive.

This was an excerpt of a longer message; we did not claim all our coaches are licensed or certified mental health professionals.

Original wording: All of our Shimmer ADHD Coaches are licensed or certified mental health professionals* or have extensive experience with ADHD & undergo our Shimmer Coach Training program

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#146

Post by com2kid »

thenerdhead wrote: post #138

I see a hundred of these companies that apparently "specialize in ADHD". I see them all in the same light unfortunately of profiteering in various ways around the incompetent medical system the US has. Is this a better price than a licensed therapist? Yes Is this a more practical solution than what you might get? Yes But it just feels ethically wrong to promote your services to people who are "undiagnosed" or "think…

> Is this a better price than a licensed therapist? Yes

Good luck finding a licensed therapist who has bookings or availability. In Seattle I have had almost 0 luck over multiple years, and I have talked to many other people who have had the exact same amount of luck. The very few therapists around here who do specialize in ADHD either specialize in children, or they are so booked up they don't even bother with a wait list.

Mind you this is for cash payments, if you want insurance to cover care you are completely out of luck no matter how good your insurance is.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#147

Post by christalwang »

thenerdhead wrote: post #138

I see a hundred of these companies that apparently "specialize in ADHD". I see them all in the same light unfortunately of profiteering in various ways around the incompetent medical system the US has. Is this a better price than a licensed therapist? Yes Is this a more practical solution than what you might get? Yes But it just feels ethically wrong to promote your services to people who are "undiagnosed" or "think…

Thanks for your comment and perspective. Our services, as mentioned, are not medical services for ADHD. It is forward-looking, goal-oriented coaching with a specialty in ADHD and executive functioning. The entire modality is represented by organizations like ACO https://www.adhdcoaches.org/ and recommended by top ADHD experts and doctors alike - specifically as a non-clinical, non-medical addition to support people with ADHD. We welcome anyone who wants to come and be coached on ADHD-related skills & goals. For example, if you want to work on your executive functions but you don't have an ADHD diagnosis, you're completely welcome here! This is also because certain cultures (or an array of different circumstances could put someone in this position) prevent folks from getting a timely diagnosis and/or they don't want to tell their parents, etc. But in this case they can still get coaching with less of the stigma.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#148

Post by christalwang »

com2kid wrote: post #146
thenerdhead wrote: post #138

I see a hundred of these companies that apparently "specialize in ADHD". I see them all in the same light unfortunately of profiteering in various ways around the incompetent medical system the US has. Is this a better price than a licensed therapist? Yes Is this a more practical solution than what you might get? Yes But it just feels ethically wrong to promote your services to people who are "undiagnosed" or "think…

> Is this a better price than a licensed therapist? Yes Good luck finding a licensed therapist who has bookings or availability. In Seattle I have had almost 0 luck over multiple years, and I have talked to many other people who have had the exact same amount of luck. The very few therapists around here who do specialize in ADHD either specialize in children, or they are so booked up they don't even bother with a wai…

Thank you for this. Many of our members have the exact experience you're talking about here. Many therapists go as far as saying they specialize with ADHD when they in fact don't. For those who do specialize in ADHD, it's far and few between—with waitlists out the door. Additionally, therapy is addressing different but sometimes overlapping space we are—we are forward-looking, action-oriented coaching (e.g. reaching goals and how you set up your life for it) and we don't do therapy (more backwards looking, unpacking, talking, etc.)

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#150

Post by xp84 »

com2kid wrote: post #146
thenerdhead wrote: post #138

I see a hundred of these companies that apparently "specialize in ADHD". I see them all in the same light unfortunately of profiteering in various ways around the incompetent medical system the US has. Is this a better price than a licensed therapist? Yes Is this a more practical solution than what you might get? Yes But it just feels ethically wrong to promote your services to people who are "undiagnosed" or "think…

> Is this a better price than a licensed therapist? Yes Good luck finding a licensed therapist who has bookings or availability. In Seattle I have had almost 0 luck over multiple years, and I have talked to many other people who have had the exact same amount of luck. The very few therapists around here who do specialize in ADHD either specialize in children, or they are so booked up they don't even bother with a wai…

Yup, it's a clear giant flashing sign that the market is fully broken that we (with our employers) are all paying ~$25,000+ per adult for health insurance, and cannot find mental health providers who are interested in taking said insurance.

• Big shortage of providers

• Providers see taking insurance is like pulling teeth because they never want to pay and why should they because they can get a full appointment book from cash patients alone, due to the shortage.

So things like therapy become completely out of reach unless you're very wealthy, or if you've gotten to the point that you are desperate to go into ruinous debt, trading one problem for another one.

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