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Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

shimmer.care

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Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#121

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

christalwang wrote: post #65
ayakang31415 wrote: post #59

To the founder if you're still here, do you guys have some sort of studies or patient records that show that your business helped people with ADHD? How do you guys convince the customers that you guys are worth paying for except PR commentaries?

Hi yes, I am still here. (1) We currently only have self reported symptom reduction (83% state symptom reduction within 6 weeks) that we've been using as a proxy so far, but we know we need more. (2) We are actually in the process of designing a more formal pilot with our Clinical Advisor Dr. Anil Chacko. We will launch this in the next 2 months, which we're very excited by. We're just tying up the loose ends in term…

Ok (1) is paper thin. Self-reported can be anything.

(2) makes me laugh because these things don’t take 2 fucking months. An initial protocol for a study, maybe. In reality such studies take years and years - I’ve done it with surgical skill development training program validation.

My advice would be to conform your thing to an existing body of knowledge and build your arguments on that - that’s what we did. Congrats on the language in your answers though. Why don’t you tell us a bit more about tying up those “loose ends” and “infrastructure for data collection etc.”

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#122

Post by xormapmap »

kstrauser wrote: post #31
ablyveiled wrote: post #4

[flagged]

I have some powerful coping mechanisms. I can manage my ADHD on my own. But earlier this year, I finally got around to working with a doc who prescribed me meds. It's amazing how much extra mental energy I have now that I'm not expending so much of it on those coping mechanisms. It's great to learn how to get by without meds. That's important, and the meds aren't a magic wand that will miraculously make you happy and…

> It's amazing how much extra mental energy I have now that I'm on amphetamines

You don't say.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#123

Post by christalwang »

p1necone wrote: post #117
christalwang wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appreciate this question, it's one we've gotten a lot and quite frankly I agree we haven't nailed the best way to articulate it. To answer a few of your questions... - We don't use psychologists or psychotherapists as the front-line helper because there is a severe shortage of them and our main goal is accessibility. There is a provider shortage (psychologists, psychiatrists, therapists, etc.) in the US and most plac…

> quite frankly I agree we haven't nailed the best way to articulate it. You've certainly nailed the best way to articulate "we haven't worked out how to best phrase our bullshit to fly under the radar" though.

We've just changed our language with the support of our care team and the folks in this thread! Super open to more suggestions if it can better represent what we're doing (ADHD Coaching)

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#124

Post by christalwang »

munk-a wrote: post #92
mike_d wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We definitely are not trying to pass as a medical service. > HSA/FSA-eligible. Try harder?

I don't think that's a particularly fair point - HSA/FSA eligibility is a billing related question. There are plenty of counseling services that aren't run by formally accredited folks that can achieve HSA/FSA eligibility. The billing arrangement isn't particularly relevant - I do agree that it'd be good to be more forward about the fact that you'll be talking to someone without formal accreditation.

Thank you for this comment, we've changed the language to reflect this last point on formal medical accreditation, and clarified that even if they do have medical credentials, in Shimmer's capacity they will be practicing ADHD coaching

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#125

Post by p1necone »

christalwang wrote: post #123
p1necone wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> quite frankly I agree we haven't nailed the best way to articulate it. You've certainly nailed the best way to articulate "we haven't worked out how to best phrase our bullshit to fly under the radar" though.

We've just changed our language with the support of our care team and the folks in this thread! Super open to more suggestions if it can better represent what we're doing (ADHD Coaching)

[flagged]

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#127

Post by christalwang »

scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #121
christalwang wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi yes, I am still here. (1) We currently only have self reported symptom reduction (83% state symptom reduction within 6 weeks) that we've been using as a proxy so far, but we know we need more. (2) We are actually in the process of designing a more formal pilot with our Clinical Advisor Dr. Anil Chacko. We will launch this in the next 2 months, which we're very excited by. We're just tying up the loose ends in term…

Ok (1) is paper thin. Self-reported can be anything. (2) makes me laugh because these things don’t take 2 fucking months. An initial protocol for a study, maybe. In reality such studies take years and years - I’ve done it with surgical skill development training program validation. My advice would be to conform your thing to an existing body of knowledge and build your arguments on that - that’s what we did. Congrats…

Agree that we want to bolster (1). Also we are not trying to prove we are medically improving symptoms, as that is not our service. We are helping members with ADHD reach future-oriented goals, and take ADHD-adapted approaches to coaching. So having them go through onerous testing etc., when we aren't a medical service, especially if it would suggest to others that we are, wouldn't make sense.

(2) I'm not saying that it takes 2 months. I'm saying we will begin enroling folks into the pilot in 2 months. We have been planning for a while now. Also, we are not trying to plan a randomized control trial nor prove medical outcomes, so our pilots are different.

Thank you for your advice! Would love to learn more about what you're building!

Re: "loose ends": we're currently conferring with adhd experts in academia and medicine to choose the right outcome metrics to study, make sure they have the right (recent) peer reviewed literature, incorporate them into our processes/tech such that the UI/UX is friendly for folks with ADHD, etc. The outcome metric(s) are the most challenging part right now because we want it to be aligned with existing body of knowledge (as you mentioned), yet reflect what we're working on (most aligned with Health & Wellness Coaching and Acceptance Commitment Training)—e.g. we're not looking for simply measuring symptoms, more so impairment and life quality. And for "data collection", we're also working with our clinical advisor on the minimum amount of data (and what variables) we'll need to ask from our members for the study. Happy to elaborate on any of the above and our process, where we're at, etc., offline! chris@shimmer.care

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#128

Post by haliskerbas »

zeroq wrote: post #53
alfanick wrote: post #7

"All of our Shimmer ADHD Coaches are licensed or certified mental health professionals or have extensive experience with ADHD & undergo our Shimmer Coach Training program developed alongside our clinical advisors Dr. Amin Azzam (MD, MA), Dr. Anil Chacko (PhD), and our Head ADHD Coaching Psychologist Xenia Angevin." What is "undergo our Shimmer Coach Training program developed alongside our clinical advisors Dr. Amin…

Looks like the same bait and switch Dr. K (Healthy Gamer) did. Put a real MD on the poster, and once they sign up hook your customers with people with 3 weeks of "professional training".

I think calling Dr. K a bait and switch is a bit unfair. They make it very explicit before signing up that it’s not medical care and that it’s just a coach and not a mental health professional.

Unless they changed the onboarding process, it’s made obvious to the user what it is.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#129

Post by haliskerbas »

Apocryphon wrote: post #87
syncbehind wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just recently found about his youtube channel and have found his content to be quite beneficial. Did not know that he'd done this. Can I read about this anywhere? There seems to be a lot of folks who are critical about him.

I don't know about the details, but even simply from watching HealthyGamerGG videos (which are quite good), the way he pushes his group counseling service(?) using essentially volunteers(??) who are licensed through him does seem suspect. Guess enshittification applies even to internet individuals.

I mentioned this in the main comment but I believe if you try to sign up they make it clear it’s not professional mental health service.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#130

Post by [deleted] »

ranting-moth wrote: post #46
christalwang wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shimmer is NOT clinical and we do NOT provide licensed medical services. We are most definitely not trying to substitute a real doctor. Full stop. We hope that is clear in all of our communications and website, and do NOT try to obscure that. However, we do a lot of work to work with the right experts (which include clinicians, psychiatrists, etc.) to ensure what we do it safe, follows best practice, is science-backe…

> Shimmer is NOT clinical and we do NOT provide licensed medical services In which case I personally find the phrase "All of our Shimmer ADHD Coaches are licensed or certified mental health professionals" to be quite deceptive.

[deleted]
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