Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#91

Post by christalwang » Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 9:00 PM UTC

jamiepenney wrote: post #61

christalwang wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appreciate the feedback! I'm the author here (Christal)...unfortunately I definitely have ADHD! Many of our members and team need the emojis for the visual relation but I definitely see your point. I will tone down the emojis and make the newsletter show up only at the end of the article. I'll also send this to a content editor for the confusing wordings, etc.! If there are any specific examples, don't hesitate to le…

Not sure if you've already done it, but I find the current state of it just fine - I wouldn't say it's overboard. Not to put extra work on you, but I wonder if it's worth creating a both a highly visual and low-noise version of your blog posts, considering ADHD tends to be co-morbid with stuff like ASD. Just a thought.

I made a few small changes to current, but not everything. And yes, I like that example of low-/high-noise. We're going to look into this in the coming weeks as we revamp our website.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#92

Post by munk-a » Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 9:00 PM UTC

mike_d wrote: post #82

christalwang wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We definitely are not trying to pass as a medical service. However, we do our due diligence to make sure we have medical staff on board to advise us on our protocols, services, train our staff, supervise our staff, and to stand in if there is any escalation needed. We hope it's clear Dr. Anil himself is not coaching and very happy to make things more clear by adding his title to the front of the card.

> We definitely are not trying to pass as a medical service. > HSA/FSA-eligible. Try harder?

I don't think that's a particularly fair point - HSA/FSA eligibility is a billing related question. There are plenty of counseling services that aren't run by formally accredited folks that can achieve HSA/FSA eligibility. The billing arrangement isn't particularly relevant - I do agree that it'd be good to be more forward about the fact that you'll be talking to someone without formal accreditation.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#93

Post by rendx » Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 9:01 PM UTC

kelseyfrog wrote: post #85

rendx wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that theory says that typically memories of traumatic events are repressed and show up only in form of symptoms like ADHD. Your "claim" that you had a non-traumatic childhood (and your parents did neither?) does not invalidate that theory. It's interesting how I was downvoted. I am just curious, I am not saying one or the other is "true". I have no idea, I am not a professional. However, I do think it is a rele…

The way the theory is phrased makes it unscientific and the HN community in general tends to be especially critical when that occurs. I also want to add that the scientific-ness of it or not doesn't invalidate it as an explanatory device in your personal journey - they are on orthogonal axes.

I merely asked a question about the team's position on it.

To pick a random study of many: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29086104/

"Children with ADHD were more likely than controls to have ever experienced a traumatic event (27 vs 16%; OR: 1.99; 95% CI 1.21, 3.27). This difference remained significant in the adjusted model (OR: 1.76, 95% CI 1.03, 3.01) accounting for child factors (age and gender) and family socio-demographic factors (parent age, parent high school completion and single parent status). Among those with ADHD, trauma-exposed children had higher parent-reported ADHD severity and more externalizing problems than non-exposed children, however, this effect attenuated in adjusted model. Children with ADHD were more likely to have experienced a traumatic event than controls. The high prevalence of trauma exposure in our sample suggests that clinicians should evaluate for trauma histories in children presenting with ADHD. "

Or another: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27816036/

"Childhood Trauma Exposure is common in Substance Use Disorder patients and associated with adult ADHD but not with the persistence of childhood ADHD into adulthood. These findings suggest that the increased rate of adult ADHD in SUD patients with CTE is not the consequence of a negative effect of CTE on the persistence of childhood ADHD into adulthood, but a direct expression of the high rate of childhood ADHD in SUD patients with CTE."

Or this one: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19337826/

"Controlling for demographic variables, comorbid disorders, and ADHD severity, we noted significant associations between lifetime depression and environmental adversities, including victimization trauma, parent-child conflict, and behaviorally-independent negative life events. "

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#94

Post by NegativeLatency » Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 9:06 PM UTC

christalwang wrote: post #74

zeroq wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like the same bait and switch Dr. K (Healthy Gamer) did. Put a real MD on the poster, and once they sign up hook your customers with people with 3 weeks of "professional training".

We definitely are not trying to pass as a medical service. However, we do our due diligence to make sure we have medical staff on board to advise us on our protocols, services, train our staff, supervise our staff, and to stand in if there is any escalation needed. We hope it's clear Dr. Anil himself is not coaching and very happy to make things more clear by adding his title to the front of the card.

It's absurd to claim that you're not trying to pass as a medical service when you're offering coaching for a neurological condition.

You can argue medical vs healthcare or whatever semantics you want but if it quacks like a duck it's a duck.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#95

Post by munk-a » Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 9:09 PM UTC

kelseyfrog wrote: post #85

rendx wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that theory says that typically memories of traumatic events are repressed and show up only in form of symptoms like ADHD. Your "claim" that you had a non-traumatic childhood (and your parents did neither?) does not invalidate that theory. It's interesting how I was downvoted. I am just curious, I am not saying one or the other is "true". I have no idea, I am not a professional. However, I do think it is a rele…

The way the theory is phrased makes it unscientific and the HN community in general tends to be especially critical when that occurs. I also want to add that the scientific-ness of it or not doesn't invalidate it as an explanatory device in your personal journey - they are on orthogonal axes.

I think a larger factor is that there are plenty of us folks with ADHD that didn't have traumatic childhood experiences and have had therapy in the past (with no impact on our ADHD tendancies).

If the comment was intended to say that some people may have ADHD like symptoms due to childhood trauma and that might be resolved by working that out it was quite poorly worded - to me at least it read as coding all ADHD as treatable by therapy and environmentally caused and that is simply untrue for me. There may be a certain amount of defensiveness in our community in particular because for a long time ADHD was written off as behavioral issue causing laziness rather than being treated as a true neurologically divergent condition. I was diagnosed about twenty two years ago and I've seen a lot of FUD around my condition and the ineffectiveness of ritalin and other stimulants - they very well may have been mis-prescribed in the 90s but for a decent chunk of us it has been highly impactful.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#96

Post by nonameiguess » Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 9:13 PM UTC

Unfrozen0688 wrote: post #26

I feel like I may have it, but I am so down in a hole I just want others to do the boring shit like cooking and cleaning and billing for me and I can just work & play. I have tried for years alredy. Is there a solution for that?

Ideally, do just what you said and have another person to do those things. My wife has ADHD and I take care of all financial stuff and most of the cleaning (we also have a maid but she only comes weekly). We each cook for ourselves, but she largely does pre-made meals and takeout, whereas I actually cook all of my food from scratch.

That maybe sounds asymmetric and unfair, but though I'm healthy now, I've been in situations in the past where I couldn't even dress myself and she took care of me. It's a lifetime partnership. Workload doesn't need to be perfectly symmetric at all times. Besides, when I lived alone before getting married, I also paid all the bills and did all the cooking and cleaning myself, so it's not like this added work.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#97

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 9:14 PM UTC

christalwang wrote: post #62

ranting-moth wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shimmer is NOT clinical and we do NOT provide licensed medical services In which case I personally find the phrase "All of our Shimmer ADHD Coaches are licensed or certified mental health professionals" to be quite deceptive.

Thank you for pinpointing this. I re-read many times, and I agree with you. I've just re-written the whole section with our Lead Coaching Psychologist, Xenia.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#98

Post by munk-a » Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 9:14 PM UTC

rendx wrote: post #93

kelseyfrog wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way the theory is phrased makes it unscientific and the HN community in general tends to be especially critical when that occurs. I also want to add that the scientific-ness of it or not doesn't invalidate it as an explanatory device in your personal journey - they are on orthogonal axes.

I merely asked a question about the team's position on it. To pick a random study of many: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29086104/ "Children with ADHD were more likely than controls to have ever experienced a traumatic event (27 vs 16%; OR: 1.99; 95% CI 1.21, 3.27). This difference remained significant in the adjusted model (OR: 1.76, 95% CI 1.03, 3.01) accounting for child factors (age and gender) and family socio…

I think this is a much better expression of your point as it makes clear that there is a correlation within a subset of people who have ADHD - rather than implying that all people with ADHD were exposed to trauma as children. Everything brain related is extremely complicated and there are quite a few comorbidities that have already been identified (the ASD-ADHD link for instance) and it's quite possible there is a link for some people between their developmental environment and neurological processing. That overlap isn't all-inclusive though - a fair number of people with ADHD grew up in wonderfully supportive environments.

Brain stuff - it just ain't simple.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#99

Post by nonameiguess » Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 9:16 PM UTC

rendx wrote: post #93

kelseyfrog wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way the theory is phrased makes it unscientific and the HN community in general tends to be especially critical when that occurs. I also want to add that the scientific-ness of it or not doesn't invalidate it as an explanatory device in your personal journey - they are on orthogonal axes.

I merely asked a question about the team's position on it. To pick a random study of many: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29086104/ "Children with ADHD were more likely than controls to have ever experienced a traumatic event (27 vs 16%; OR: 1.99; 95% CI 1.21, 3.27). This difference remained significant in the adjusted model (OR: 1.76, 95% CI 1.03, 3.01) accounting for child factors (age and gender) and family socio…

This supports a theory that childhood trauma may be one reason of many ADHD might eventually manifest, not a theory that it's the reason ADHD ever manifests. Even here, it's saying 27% of the diagnosed peope had identifiable trauma in their past. That seems to hint there are many other possible causes and ways to treat.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#100

Post by kelseyfrog » Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 9:16 PM UTC

rendx wrote: post #93

kelseyfrog wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way the theory is phrased makes it unscientific and the HN community in general tends to be especially critical when that occurs. I also want to add that the scientific-ness of it or not doesn't invalidate it as an explanatory device in your personal journey - they are on orthogonal axes.

I merely asked a question about the team's position on it. To pick a random study of many: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29086104/ "Children with ADHD were more likely than controls to have ever experienced a traumatic event (27 vs 16%; OR: 1.99; 95% CI 1.21, 3.27). This difference remained significant in the adjusted model (OR: 1.76, 95% CI 1.03, 3.01) accounting for child factors (age and gender) and family socio…

Yes, thank you for the sources.

When I'm hearing now is "ADHD has a correlation with traumatic events." What I was hearing before was "If you don't think your ADHD is a result of trauma, you need to dig deeper."

It goes to show you that what's being written isn't always how folks interpret it.