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Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

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Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#171

Post by hsjqllzlfkf »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #144
permo-w wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

was that in Polish? if so, what is the Polish version?

There isn't a set one. "Antynaukowy" (lit. "anti-science") is the most common I've seen, perhaps because it's close to a well-established term "antyszczepionkowiec" ("anti-vaxxer") - but most often, it's just any of the expression that contains the core term of "anti science" or "denying science", such as "antynaukowe poglądy" ("anti-scientific beliefs"), "zaprzeczasz nauce" ("you're denying science"), etc.

Lol that last word has a z, a prz, a cz, and a sz.

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#172

Post by BigJono »

soudiere wrote: post #158
drekipus wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing this. It's so crucial to know that we have actually lost this information and we're getting worse. > Do you know what is the most uncomfortable position for labour is? Yeah, layin on your back. My wife and I were shocked when we had our first. We were recommended a "natural birth" course that taught us this, and everyone gave us crap about being "woo-woo" and "denying science". Everyone. We also ha…

Imagine working with this guy on a software system. Says no to established best practices across the board "no" to version control, CI/CD, vulnerability scans, patching and all the interventions. Gets one project off the ground by "following their gut", and it wasn't a disaster, concludes this is the way to go. > Doctors and nurses make a big deal about things like "the cord is wrapped around the neck" when the baby…

I don't disagree but "established best practices" have an enormous range from no brainers to obvious cargo cult bullshit. For every dev rightly suggesting people use CI/CD I've met 10 that twitch at the slightest suggestion that maybe we don't need whatever half baked library their favourite medium blogger or tweeter is raving about this week.

I think it's stupid to disregard a doctor's advice, but as someone without a medical degree you really have no good way of knowing whether you're getting the healthcare version of "use version control" or "I just used Svelte for 5 minutes and it's the best thing ever!!!!!!!". You just have to roll with it like you'd roll with a shit dev over someone who's never written a line of code in their life.

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#173

Post by Spooky23 »

bondarchuk wrote: post #125
pfannkuchen wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know how the phrase "denying science" crept into people’s vocabulary? I find it incredibly creepy since it sort of treats science as a religion, and usually people who say it seem to know basically nothing about actual science. If I think back before about 10 years ago I don’t think I had ever heard it before. In the past, non-technically minded people didn’t really cite “science” as a concrete reason to…

From my viewpoint (in europe though) I only started hearing/seeing it during coronavirus.

In the US,this went mainstream for the pandemic. It was an existing undercurrent in different communities.

Reactionary people weaponized vaccines with Gardasil - good Christian boys and girls are chaste until marriage, so vaccination is unnecessary. Sinners get gods punishment.

Crazy left-wing people cling to the autism rumors about vaccination.

All of this is magnified by politics and propaganda. Certain religious sects punch above their weight because of political factors - you can usually correlate this with measles outbreaks. Foreign influence operations encourage and stoke this stuff to encourage general unrest as well.

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#174

Post by itsoktocry »

drekipus wrote: post #53
croo wrote: post #39

Everybody is joking half sarcastically here but childbirth as a process in hospitals do have serious problems and modern day labour leaves deep mental scars in most women while being one of the most important thing in their life. This is definitely a step in the wrong direction however laughable the idea is. Do you know what is the most uncomfortable position for labour is? Yeah, layin on your back. It's just the mos…

Thanks for sharing this. It's so crucial to know that we have actually lost this information and we're getting worse. > Do you know what is the most uncomfortable position for labour is? Yeah, layin on your back. My wife and I were shocked when we had our first. We were recommended a "natural birth" course that taught us this, and everyone gave us crap about being "woo-woo" and "denying science". Everyone. We also ha…

>We also had to forcibly tell doctors "no" to forceps, pumps, drugs, and all the interventions. They made such a big deal about being two days past the due date, that they pulled her aside and asked if I was abusive.

Guy who has delivered zero babies telling the team who has delivered many babies what to do.

>Doctors and nurses make a big deal about things like "the cord is wrapped around the neck"

Lol.

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#175

Post by Chris2048 »

howenterprisey wrote: post #132
causi wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring the depressingly-predictable classist/colonialist tone Isn't it an anti-classist tone if anything? It's associating "civilization" with weakness, confinement, and a lack of opportunity, and associating primitive living with fully developed muscles and says it provides for a normal and quick delivery. How is that not an endorsement of primitive living? I don't see how you can call that paragraph colonialist u…

1) It divides people into "primitive" and "civilized", which delineates an ingroup and outgroup; 2) The document is written for civilized people, because surely the document wouldn't call its readers primitive; 3) The flip side of "developed muscles" is "barbaric lifestyle" - the "proper" thing for women at the time was NOT to develop said muscles, but rather to maintain a "trim figure" ("one of the best exercises fo…

> "barbaric lifestyle"

> "trim figure"

Where are you getting these quotes from?

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#176

Post by [deleted] »

drekipus wrote: post #53
croo wrote: post #39

Everybody is joking half sarcastically here but childbirth as a process in hospitals do have serious problems and modern day labour leaves deep mental scars in most women while being one of the most important thing in their life. This is definitely a step in the wrong direction however laughable the idea is. Do you know what is the most uncomfortable position for labour is? Yeah, layin on your back. It's just the mos…

Thanks for sharing this. It's so crucial to know that we have actually lost this information and we're getting worse. > Do you know what is the most uncomfortable position for labour is? Yeah, layin on your back. My wife and I were shocked when we had our first. We were recommended a "natural birth" course that taught us this, and everyone gave us crap about being "woo-woo" and "denying science". Everyone. We also ha…

[deleted]

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#177

Post by soudiere »

javier123454321 wrote: post #161
BurningFrog wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Denying science" usually means denying scientifically proven facts.

https://blogs.loc.gov/headlinesandheroes/2022/04/10-strange-... You seem to be denying the scientifically proven facts that science gets things wrong... constantly... to the detriments of people suffering the catastrophic effects of those errors.

Humor me, what did science actually get wrong in this article?

The milk transfusions were shitty solution for lack of blood during a cholera epidemic, but the articles claims are false "In the late 19th century, milk was believed to be the perfect substitute for blood"

Soothing syrup did it's job (pain), we now shy from it because of perception of risks, but no one's ever run clinical trials on small amounts of alcohol + opioids on childrens gums showing any adverse outcomes.

Chloroform is an effective treatment for asthma, and the best we had before the discovery of beta-2 receptor agonists. See this paper for details on the physiology in mice.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5702405/

Cocaine (stimulant) is also likely a somewhat effective treatment for allergies. Take a look at this clinical trial which showed antihistamine + ritalin being a more effective treatment.

https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(04)00017-X/ful...

Malaria for treatment of syphilis also makes sense, it was incurable at the time, and the other options were mercury based, ineffective and had horrific side effects. Malaria was better than mercury.

Tobacco enemas can be thought of as a large nicotine delivery mechanism. Newspaper clip says it's helpful with meningitis, inflammation of the brain, nicotine is a vasoconstrictor, crosses the blood brain barrier. Maybe it did something, who knows.

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#178

Post by howenterprisey »

Chris2048 wrote: post #175
howenterprisey wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) It divides people into "primitive" and "civilized", which delineates an ingroup and outgroup; 2) The document is written for civilized people, because surely the document wouldn't call its readers primitive; 3) The flip side of "developed muscles" is "barbaric lifestyle" - the "proper" thing for women at the time was NOT to develop said muscles, but rather to maintain a "trim figure" ("one of the best exercises fo…

> "barbaric lifestyle" > "trim figure" Where are you getting these quotes from?

First are scare quotes, second is from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_century_women%27s_fitness..., the title of a 1967 article.

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#179

Post by soudiere »

zulban wrote: post #68
drekipus wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing this. It's so crucial to know that we have actually lost this information and we're getting worse. > Do you know what is the most uncomfortable position for labour is? Yeah, layin on your back. My wife and I were shocked when we had our first. We were recommended a "natural birth" course that taught us this, and everyone gave us crap about being "woo-woo" and "denying science". Everyone. We also ha…

> home birth Isn't the rate of complications higher at home than in a hospital? Statistics is your friend here. Not sure I would want my wife to experience pre-hospital rates of complications. Maybe tough to study tho, as I'm sure women who have had smoother pregnancies (or a good first like your wife) are the ones more likely to home birth.

Rate of complications will be the same, outcomes from those complications won't be the same. Accident rates on the highway might be say, equal among people who do/don't wear seatbelts, but outcomes are not.

Look at common complications, like postpartum hemmorrhage (usually > 500 ml blood loss). "estimated 76.7m delivery hospitalizations, 2.3 million (3.0%) were complicated by postpartum hemorrhage. From 2000 to 2019, the rate of postpartum hemorrhage increased from 2.7% to 4.3% ... proportion of deliveries to individuals with at least one postpartum hemorrhage risk factor increased from 18.6% to 26.9% ."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36701615/

Bottom line with a home birth, everyones training is around when things go smooth. Medical center is where people have thousands of hours of training on how to save your life.

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#180

Post by lotsofpulp »

croo wrote: post #165
lotsofpulp wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Giving birth is similar to the act of vomiting in the sense that you don't have to do anything, it happens to you when the circumstances call for it. Is it? I imagine the mortality/morbidity rate for women before modern medical interventions during childbirth was much higher. My wife had to have her amniotic sac manually broken by the doctor after 12 hours of labor to resume her dilation.

Yep, women body is able to give birth. I agree, mortality was most likely higher because when complications happen, modern intervention is much better, cleaner, we know about bacteria and other stuff exists and stuff like that.. but that's only like 10% of the cases(anecdote). About your wife: if you take a woman in labour from home to an unknown place where strangers stare at her vagina and put stuff in guess what h…

>I agree, mortality was most likely higher because when complications happen, modern intervention is much better, cleaner, we know about bacteria and other stuff exists and stuff like that.. but that's only like 10% of the cases(anecdote).

Data would be nicer than anecdote. But even at 10%, if you are a woman, at 10% probability of needing experienced professionals with medical training and equipment, are you taking a chance at home or at the hospital?

More common than mortality is morbidity, and evolution does not quite care about that as long a woman survives well enough to procreate again. But women themselves most certainly care about hemorrhoids, tears, pain, infections, etc.

Back to the point though, if the implication of comparing it to vomiting is to say that the mechanism is "simple" enough so as to be reliable enough to not need intervention, I think most women would disagree and prefer having intervention available if necessary. Perhaps many interventions are unhelpful, or the tradeoffs not worth it, but many are helpful, and the medical field does seem to eventually abandon the bad ideas once shown unhelpful.

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