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Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

rijksoverheid.nl

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Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#671

Post by xen2xen1 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #129
xxs wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Cash isn't great, but some people don't use online banking This is the US version of the events. I don't know all EU member states in detail, but I can't think of one where it's possible to receive salary/pension in cash. Cheques have not been a thing for 20y+, I wonder if they are still issued.

> This is the US version of the events. By far the most common method of receiving income from an employer in the US is direct deposit. For people who refuse, the fallback position is typically a card (essentially a refillable gift card). Checks still do exist, but primarily for one-off payments where the payer and payee don't have much of a relationship.

I know of a surprising number of small businesses in the Midwest that pay by check. Still, today, post Covid 2023. Weirds me out.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#673

Post by trizuz »

eru wrote: post #29
mtmail wrote: post #21

Some countries like Denmark (starting 2020) have banned paying with the 500 Euro bank note. It's also no longer printed, but some 600 million of them still exist. I've seen a documentary where (I think it was Swedish police) would like to ban 200 Euro notes as well.

The only reason the 500 Euro bank note exists in the first place was that the Germans wanted a replacement for their 1,000 Mark note. (Apparently their reasoning was something along the lines of: what if you want to buy a car?) Meanwhile in Singapore we have a 10,000 dollar note (which is worth about 6,800 Euro at the moment.)

[dead]

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#674

Post by pvg »

dmarchand90 wrote: post #668
lost_tourist wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very important for proper understanding of such things as translation is currently really not up to HN quality expectations just yet. Maybe in the future as AI gets better at it

For me this translation is extremely easy to understand: What is the maximum amount I can pay in cash? At this time, you may pay for all purchases in cash. For cash purchases above € 10,000, the seller must conduct a customer due diligence. But not all sellers accept cash. The cabinet is working on a bill to ban cash payments from € 3,000. Pay for purchases in cash At this time, you may pay for all purchases in cash.…

Easy or not, such posts grow long meta threads about the quality of the translation. If the story is HN-interesting, an English source will appear and you can post that. Also has the advantage of not having the poster make up a title.

Proposed legislation in general is not particularly HN-interesting:

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#675

Post by Radim »

cooper_ganglia wrote: post #424
gspencley wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would someone need to pay for 10k in cash? The answer to this is very simple: none of your business. I take strong issue with the word "need." Why do you need that car? That television? That four bedroom house? Why do you need that bow and arrow? For sport, you say? Why not play some ball game instead? Why do you need a chess set when you can play digitally online without killing a tree? Why do you need those f…

It’s absolutely wild to see people making comments like the one you replied to. Are people so eager to have Daddy Government monitoring their every move, deciding how they’re allowed to spend their money? Europeans seem to have Stockholm Syndrome, a fetish for authoritarianism of their preferred flavor. It feels like the entire continent is one big HOA, deciding what color you can paint your house, or what flowers yo…

> Europeans seem to have Stockholm Syndrome, a fetish for authoritarianism of their preferred flavor.

Not all of us! Please trim your paintbrush. Europe comprises dozens of countries, with hundreds of millions of people.

My personal divorce from "banking with will-you-think-of-the-children-and-oh-all-the-nasty-criminals" here in CZ happened when I went to withdraw ~14k USD in cash. My Fio bank, that I've been with for 10+ years, asked me, "what do you need the money for?"

After collecting my jaw from the floor my answer was of course "none of your business". But the clerk claimed to be "just following the law" (maybe true, I wouldn't know on the spot), that they cannot give me my money without a valid reason.

So I said "I want to withdraw it in order to keep it in cash" (doh!). They made a face and said that's not a valid reason.

So I asked what is a valid reason then? Is there a list that I can see and choose from?

They made a face again and said no, but suggested – trying to be helpful – that most people say "I want to buy a car". Yet I wasn't buying a car and having to lie about this – being advised to lie so a bureaucrat can tick some children-saved-criminals-thwarted checkbox – felt quite surreal. A Kafka-esque exchange. Especially when everybody knows the real money laundering is done by government officials & government-adjacent crooks – in CZ and in every other country under the sun.

In the end I got angry and said I'm about to buy a lot of dog food and refused to budge. They backed down, and I learned a very important lesson about "my" money that day.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#676

Post by eru »

Paul-Craft wrote: post #371
eru wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the law technically states that you have to declare, if you have more cash. It's not directly forbidden, is it?

You can't leave the US carrying more than $5 in nickels and pennies though. https://moneyweek.com/33401/why-its-now-illegal-to-melt-down... https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2007/04/16/E7-7088...

From one of your links:

> The United States Mint nevertheless acknowledges the concerns raised by the commenters. Therefore, the exception provided for in the current regulation at section 82.2(a)(2) has been amended to reasonably accommodate these concerns by allowing exportation of 5-cent and one-cent coins having an aggregate face value of up to $25 when it is clear that the purpose for exporting such coins is for legitimate personal numismatic, amusement, or recreational use.

It's still a weirdly low limit.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#677

Post by RMPR »

NorwegianDude wrote: post #477
dijit wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll be downvoted, but to answer this question with all honesty: 1) Disallowing a third-party in every single transaction you make, especially as 1a) Inflation means 3k now might be quite low in 20 years 1b) Banks themselves have been shown to be scummy 1c) Banks are a rare institution to allow outsiders into. 2) Bank accounts themselves are not actually all that accessible; it's quite common for people to be ineli…

> Bank accounts themselves are not actually all that accessible If you have a way to prove your ID(which basically everyone do in Norway) then bank accounts are very accessible and free. I don't know how many banks I have accounts at, but it's more than 15, and all you need is your ID and a couple of minutes to create an account.

> If you have a way to prove your ID(which basically everyone do in Norway)

After going through the process of moving to Norway, I can say that unfortunately things are not that straightforward for foreigners. Even after getting your work permit, getting a personnummer can take up to several months after moving, not to mention getting an appointment with UDI can also take up to several months (in the meantime you'll feel like a lesser member of society, basic things like getting a library card are not accessible without it). After all there's a reason why this kind of service exist https://www.linkedin.com/posts/mpr_sua-techfasttrack-oslo-ac...

> then bank accounts are very accessible and free. I don't know how many banks I have accounts at, but it's more than 15, and all you need is your ID and a couple of minutes to create an account.

This only works when you already have a BankID. It takes at least 1 month to open your first account. Granted after that, everything is smooth, but oh boy how much time does it take.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#678

Post by sowbug »

mrguyorama wrote: post #576
sowbug wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US banking system, that's called structuring. Which means that transactions of $10,000 or more are legally suspicious, and transactions under $10,000 are legally suspicious. Logicians, please simplify the previous statement.

You are incorrect: "Transactions under $10k" are not legally suspicious, but rather, multiple transactions that are very large but under $10k but when added together are more than $10k. It's not that easy to end up under scrutiny for structuring unless you're running a cash heavy business without declaring it. Moreover, 99% of the time, the "scrutiny" is "fill out this paperwork"

I stand by my statement. Are banks required to scrutinize $10K+ transactions? Yes. Are banks required to scrutinize Compare: in the US, you can be detained for driving over the speed limit. You can also be detained for driving under the speed limit, if police believe either that your slow speed is dangerous, or that you are driving slowly to avoid being detained. In all but the most egregious cases of abuse, a driver will have little reason to complain that they shouldn't have been pulled over.

These are both dragnets.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#679

Post by systems_glitch »

frumper wrote: post #651
nottorp wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's because you still use checks over there :)

A stolen credit card isn't any different.

Considering that the last time one of my CC numbers was stolen, it was used to pay for air conditioning service, I'm sure that is also a concern for tradespeople!

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#680

Post by seanmcdirmid »

mywittyname wrote: post #665
halfdan wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you clearly want to carry 3000+ EUR in your pocket than paying by card? Europe is safe, but I will definitely not walk around with that much cash on my person.

It's not a problem. I regularly pay for four-figure items in cash. Lots of places offer cash discounts at that price point (no CC fees or risk of chargeback). I paid a doctor $5000 in cash once. The first time, it feels a little odd, but then you realize that nobody at the bank bats an eye at you withdrawing a few grand, and $3k in 100s is about the size of a phone in your pocket. Since nobody carries cash, nobody th…

> Since nobody carries cash, nobody thinks that other people are carrying cash, so it doesn't make you a target.

Thugs will target older people who are more likely to carry cash, they do some stereotyping other of people who are still worth mugging.

Also, if they notice the wallet bulge in your back pocket, you’ve become a target.

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