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Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

rijksoverheid.nl

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Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#541

Post by ghaff »

dijit wrote: post #485
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bank accounts themselves are not actually all that accessible; it's quite common for people to be ineligible for a bank account under random (but common) circumstances. Not in the Netherlands. Any adult (18 or older) resident of the EU has the right to a bank account, by law. > an interesting loop you can get into is that you need to pay a utility bill in order to get a bank account, yet you can't pay a utility bil…

You need proof of address too, it's not enough to have just an ID. A passport is good, but you should also be aware that not everyone has a passport or drivers license. (for example: I didn't when I got my first bank account). My first bank account was a deal my mother made with the bank where she acted as guarantor. having a right to a thing is not the same as actually getting it; there is a lot of anti-fraud legisl…

When I got a RealID-compliant driver's license a few years ago in my state in the US, an existing driver's license and passport were not sufficient. I needed some document to server as proof of my current address, such as a utility bill. I don't remember what all the options were but, yes, some people--including kids getting their first driver's license or people sharing an apartment who don't have their name on a lease--can run into issues.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#542

Post by herbst »

ffhhttt wrote: post #509
herbst wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just recently bought a car for around 4000€ in cash. I even went to a ATM to withdraw money first. Cash is, after all, the only instant and feeless transaction method. Why would I want to pay % fee or wait up to several days for a transaction like that? Imagine I bought the car on Friday afternoon. The seller would get the money earliest on Monday. Why would the seller simply trust me? So how would I buy a car on a…

With SEPA you’d pay a fixed > So how would I buy a car on a Friday afternoon otherwise? https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/integration/retail/instant_pa...

Swiss banks are not decent enough

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#543

Post by JW_00000 »

macNchz wrote: post #486
paxys wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point isn't that nothing costs €3k, but that regular working people rarely have €3k physical cash on hand. Money goes into their bank accounts via direct deposit and they spend it digitally.

In my opinion it's not unthinkable that an older person, someone without a bank account, or someone who works odd-jobs, might save cash in a drawer (regardless of whether that's advisable) for a long time for a larger purchase, like a used car bought in-person directly from someone else. Should we ban that?

Is it possible to have no bank account in the Netherlands? Don't you need one to pay taxes? (I think it's a right to have one and banks must offer a free option.)

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#544

Post by donbatman »

thiht wrote: post #364
eur0pa wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? None of your business. Where it comes from? None of your business. Says who? Me, twice.

> Where it comes from? None of your business. That ridiculously wrong. If you got a huge stash of cash and can’t justify where it comes from… well yeah, it screams undeclared work or illegal business. Do you have other legit explanations?

A free citizen shouldn't have to justify anything to anyone without an attorney. God bless the USA and the 4th and 5th Amendments!

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#546

Post by jdmichal »

dylan604 wrote: post #321
ilyt wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can't control the black market in drugs, what makes them think controlling a black market in cash, which is a million times more desirable, will be any more successful? Well, for one, they control cash production > It's not a lot of money, and given inflation, diminishingly so. This is targeted at law abiding smallholding farmers where roadside transactions are often done in cash and farmers everywhere have a…

>Do you have any actual example of that ? What transaction do small farmers need to do along roadside for thousands of eur ? As kid of small farmer I don't remember anything like that ever happening. While each transaction might be <3000, on a good weekend, I could see it totaling to be over that amount. At this point, would it be illegal for the farmer to show up to his bank to deposit 3001? Does the farmer now need…

> Does the farmer now need to waste time to make 2 separate trips to make each deposit In the US, that's called structuring and will result in some very uncomfortable conversations.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#547

Post by devilbunny »

michaelt wrote: post #55
sakisv wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow Greece has a limit of 500 euro, but: "There is no cash limit for car purchases" wth? EDIT: Also this something that I didn't know about the UK > With regard to the change, there are unlimited payments of £ 5, £ 2 and £ 1. Coins with a face value of 50p, 25p and 20p can pay amounts up to £ 10, with 10p and 5p up to £ 5 and with 2p and 1p up to 20p.

> "There is no cash limit for car purchases" wth? Cash isn't great, but some people don't use online banking - and in a private sale, only a fool would hand over their car keys to a stranger in exchange for a cheque . (Of course, this was a much bigger issue 15 years ago - these days we have faster payments, and the vast majority of people can make payments from their phone.)

It's not trivially easy to do large payments to another random individual in the US via bank transfers.

The check issue is solved by concluding the transaction at the buyer's bank. A cashier's check can be issued by that bank to the seller. Since that check is backed up by the bank's own accounts, not subject to the buyer's whims (e.g., they can't stop payment, and the bank will have confirmed that buyer has that amount in their account and debit it immediately), it's as good as cash (well, unless the bank itself is unsound) but safer to carry around.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#548

Post by dmarchand90 »

dang wrote: post #501

We have deep respect for other languages but HN is an English language site, so the articles posted here need to be in English. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

How important is this rule really? Particularly when the title gives the main message. I ask because auto translation is almost perfect for at least all the European languages. I agree maybe there should be a bias towards English but this seems a reasonable exception here

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#549

Post by eur0pa »

thiht wrote: post #364
eur0pa wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? None of your business. Where it comes from? None of your business. Says who? Me, twice.

> Where it comes from? None of your business. That ridiculously wrong. If you got a huge stash of cash and can’t justify where it comes from… well yeah, it screams undeclared work or illegal business. Do you have other legit explanations?

None of your business.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#550

Post by someplaceguy »

shellfishgene wrote: post #507
someplaceguy wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. One of my banks forbids making bank transfers of over 10,000 EUR. The other is not far behind. Even then, sometimes they simply decide that they're not going to allow you to make bank transfers to certain perfectly legitimate accounts. There is no way to override that. For the past couple of days I've been trying to set up an automatic monthly transfer for paying my rent and my bank is not allowing me because it…

Where is this? I doubt that it's legal for a bank to actually prevent you from transferring money. Yes, I also have a limit, but if I call my bank and tell them I need to transfer 500,000 to buy a house they will allow it. The limit is there is to prevent fraud.

> Where is this?

It's in the two countries in Europe where I've lived.

> if I call my bank and tell them I need to transfer 500,000 to buy a house they will allow it

What you're saying is not possible in the banks I've used.

To buy houses in recent years, I've had to set up appointments and physically go to the central office of one of the banks, and to a local branch of another. They provided me with a special bank-issued cheque for the transaction.

In one of the cases, this required me to travel to another country just for this purpose.

It was a significant hassle and even then I was lucky that this was in an adjacent country. It could have easily been in the other side of the world.

> The limit is there is to prevent fraud.

Right... fraud... of course!

Is that why one of the banks only allows me to set up a 5 digit password (yes, only numbers) to access my account? And why the other one only allows me to set up a 6 digit password (again, only numbers)?

Is that also why they require me to dictate this same password (as well as other personal details) over the phone when I want to make a large transaction? So that other people who are physically near me can hear the password easily?

And that's even assuming I typed their phone number correctly in my phone, otherwise I would be giving my password to strangers unknowingly!

Look, I really don't care if it's fraud, or money laundering laws, or because the Pope mandated it. I've never been a victim of fraud, it's extremely unlikely for me to ever be a victim of fraud in the future, I'm not doing anything illegal and it's my money.

There are many other ways to deal with fraud, such as having most of the money locked (e.g. in a separate account, with more restrictions or delays), providing notifications, using two-factor authentication, calling the customers to confirm the transaction, etc, etc.

And yes, I know in many banks (including mine) they also do a subset of these, but even then the restrictions are still there.

I'm sorry, but fraud alone does not explain what's happening, unless the banks are extremely incompetent (and yes, it's quite possible that they are).

Regardless, the end result is the same: I simply cannot use my money easily, period.

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