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Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

rijksoverheid.nl

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Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#401

Post by mytailorisrich »

mdrzn wrote: post #199
gspencley wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would someone need to pay for 10k in cash? The answer to this is very simple: none of your business. I take strong issue with the word "need." Why do you need that car? That television? That four bedroom house? Why do you need that bow and arrow? For sport, you say? Why not play some ball game instead? Why do you need a chess set when you can play digitally online without killing a tree? Why do you need those f…

Nothing wrong with this point of view, except that it's not shared by Europeans as far as I know (and feel). The "none of your business" doesn't work in the long run.

I am European and the feeling "that's none of your business" is shared by many people.

An anecdote: The 500 euro bank note was originally created because Germans had the habit of paying in cash, even for large purchases like cars, and they had a DM1,000 bank note (which is about EUR500).

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#403

Post by culturestate »

bonzini wrote: post #360
dijit wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll be downvoted, but to answer this question with all honesty: 1) Disallowing a third-party in every single transaction you make, especially as 1a) Inflation means 3k now might be quite low in 20 years 1b) Banks themselves have been shown to be scummy 1c) Banks are a rare institution to allow outsiders into. 2) Bank accounts themselves are not actually all that accessible; it's quite common for people to be ineli…

> Cash is the only fiat currency that actually exists There's also money orders.

I think GP means “exists” as in “doesn’t require a third party to complete the value transfer.”

If you give me a $20 bill, I can immediately exchange it for a case of beer at the bodega with no extra steps. If you give me a money order for $20, I need to find someone who is willing and/or able to convert that money order into a $20 bill before I can buy my beer.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#404

Post by TrackerFF »

SileNce5k wrote: post #88
potatototoo99 wrote: post #10

There are many similar restrictions on other countries. Here is a list for Europe: https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/shopping-internet/cas... The equivalent of 3,000 - 4,000 Euro seems to be the norm.

Nice to see that there's no limit where I live which is Norway. Hopefully, there are no plans to introduce one.

IIRC, stores have a 40000 NOK limit on cash payments. No problem if you use debit, credit card, etc. though.

edit: https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/rettskilder/type/uttalelser/p...

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#405

Post by ticviking »

cianuro_ wrote: post #311
ilyt wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can't control the black market in drugs, what makes them think controlling a black market in cash, which is a million times more desirable, will be any more successful? Well, for one, they control cash production > It's not a lot of money, and given inflation, diminishingly so. This is targeted at law abiding smallholding farmers where roadside transactions are often done in cash and farmers everywhere have a…

Not from the Netherlands but from a small third world country: farmers around here like to buy things on spot doing handshake deals and carrying bags of cash. I've heard them buying a lot things from cattle to agricultural supplies and even vehicles. Mind you, this is a poor country. The middle class in the capital city can't even dream of making what these farmers make.

I still see this in rural America. Guys show up and transfer the title on the car for an envelope of cash and a signature.

Same for livestock, butchering, services and so on.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#406

Post by nolok »

Loughla wrote: post #383
nolok wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freedom from government surveillance and potential overreach? With all due respect, the transactions above that rough amount is exactly those I would want the government to keep an eye on, while letting me buy stuff for a few hundreds freely and without having to report it. There is pretty much no situation whatsoever when someone buys something for more than 3k€ where the absolute requirement to use cash is not li…

Like I said to the other poster. I transact often over that amount to purchase old woodworking equipment. The people I work with often do not want to transact electronically for multiple reasons. The tax is paid, it's on the books, but they want cash. Why should that be limited?

Because a 80/20 rule is much better than having to chose between "everything is controlled" or "nothing is controlled", and that's essentially the two choices we have.

It works just fine in most of europe since a very long time, and frankly people insisting to be paid in cash and then going out of their way to fully declare the taxes and source of the money is even weirded, why not take the easier shortcut.

Of course, maybe it's linked to how strange sending money seems to still be in some circumtances in the US ? Reading about Venmo and the likes is just surprising to me, a 10 minutes SEPA wire is free here, and as good as cash.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#407

Post by Etheryte »

40four wrote: post #388

It says there is a bill in the works. Nothing definite yet. If it does pass, that seems very odd to me, especially coming from the US. I noticed the policy on €10K or more is already similar to what we have here for dollars. Anything $10K in cash or more gets flagged, and you have to fill out a form.

I'm not sure if I would call it odd given there are similar laws in place in some EU countries.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#408

Post by input_sh »

BSEdlMMldESB wrote: post #317
HDMI_Cable wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but they don't control the distribution and transaction of cash. They may stop producing €500 notes—for example, but there is nothing they can do to stop these farmers or undocumented immigrants from bundling together >€3000 in smaller notes for use in paying rent, buying cars, or investments.

[]

> if they find more than 3000 eur in one place that is not pre authorized, they will confiscate it all and punish the people who had that kind of cash; it's becoming 'the law'

Can you please not make shit up to be obsessed about?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#409

Post by gunapologist99 »

mdrzn wrote: post #338
dylan604 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you have any actual example of that ? What transaction do small farmers need to do along roadside for thousands of eur ? As kid of small farmer I don't remember anything like that ever happening. While each transaction might be <3000, on a good weekend, I could see it totaling to be over that amount. At this point, would it be illegal for the farmer to show up to his bank to deposit 3001? Does the farmer now need…

You can deposit whatever amount you want into your bank account, they just might ask questions regarding where the money came from, and if you show that you sold products there's zero issues.

> show that you sold products there's zero issues

well, there might be one small issue!

how can you 'show you sold products'? after all, you sold them!!

isn't the cash sufficient to show you sold products? hasn't it been sufficient for thousands of years?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#410

Post by airza »

lou1306 wrote: post #387
motohagiography wrote: post #127

They can't control the black market in drugs, what makes them think controlling a black market in cash , which is a million times more desirable, will be any more successful? There's the small matter of millions of undocumented migrants entering Europe who will be trapped in this now-illegal-cash underclass, and these financial oppression laws just incentivise and create criminal networks to facilitate basic economy.…

> This is targeted at law abiding smallholding farmers where roadside transactions are often done in cash. Most EU nations are setting up instant payment systems for these and other "informal" use cases. In Sweden you can buy strawberries at a sidewalk stall and pay through Swish [0]. I should also stress that, no matter how bad Swedish inflation is at the moment, it's very unlikely that you will ever spend >3k EUR (…

The EU system is going to be based on Ideal, which is the NL system already in place for instant payments.
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