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Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

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Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#341

Post by Scarblac »

freedude wrote: post #225
mdrzn wrote: post #53

The maximum limit for cash payments in Italy is 1000€, so 3k would still be a lot. Why would someone need to pay for 10k in cash? Where does that cash come from? 60% of the times, it's money laundering every time. edit: I suppose since I'm in EU and I'm only 30 I'm "used" to the 1k limit, while non-EU (or specifically USA) people might be grabbing their pitchforks.

Whenever I buy a car, tractor, cattle, pump repair, implements, out-buildings, solar system installation, fuel storage, etc... Because I pay cash and keep the bankers out of the transaction it costs me less and it costs the seller less. I negotiate this ahead of time. Most people in business would rather have cash in hand than wait on the bank and pay their fees.

> Because I pay cash and keep the bankers out of the transaction it costs me less and it costs the seller less.

Other way around (in the Netherlands, which is the subject), bank transfers are free but depositing cash as a business costs money. Paying cash costs the seller more and holding it has a risk of robbery.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#342

Post by cies »

sneak wrote: post #113
cies wrote: post #23

Let bring back gold payments! There are already some institutions that offer gold certificates: notes that represent gold stored in some bolt and collectable on demand. It was a good idea all along and the reason that "gold back currency does not fit a growing economy" is BS if not properly substantiated.

The problem with gold deposit certificates is centralization. There was one called Liberty Reserve that was catching on, but predictably they were raided and shut down.

> The problem with gold deposit certificates is centralization.

I find fiat currency pretty centralized as well. So centralization is not very gold specific. There're even some "gold on blockchain" going on, which would --to some extend-- solve that problem.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#343

Post by volent »

ClarityJones wrote: post #221
mdrzn wrote: post #53

The maximum limit for cash payments in Italy is 1000€, so 3k would still be a lot. Why would someone need to pay for 10k in cash? Where does that cash come from? 60% of the times, it's money laundering every time. edit: I suppose since I'm in EU and I'm only 30 I'm "used" to the 1k limit, while non-EU (or specifically USA) people might be grabbing their pitchforks.

Cash is money. Cash is immune to bank runs. If you have $10,000, then you have $10,000. If you deposit $10,000 in a bank, then you have $0 and a promise from a bank that has $1,000 and a promise (from somebody else) for $9,000.

That is not true in most of Europe.

Money you deposit in a bank is guaranteed by the state up to a certain limit (often 100 000€ per person per bank).

Source (french) : https://www.ecb.europa.eu/ecb/educational/explainers/tell-me...

> Selon la réglementation européenne, ces systèmes assurent 100 000 euros par déposant. > (DeepL) According to European regulations, these systems guarantee 100,000 euros per depositor.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#344

Post by cesarb »

ClarityJones wrote: post #221
mdrzn wrote: post #53

The maximum limit for cash payments in Italy is 1000€, so 3k would still be a lot. Why would someone need to pay for 10k in cash? Where does that cash come from? 60% of the times, it's money laundering every time. edit: I suppose since I'm in EU and I'm only 30 I'm "used" to the 1k limit, while non-EU (or specifically USA) people might be grabbing their pitchforks.

Cash is money. Cash is immune to bank runs. If you have $10,000, then you have $10,000. If you deposit $10,000 in a bank, then you have $0 and a promise from a bank that has $1,000 and a promise (from somebody else) for $9,000.

> Cash is money. Cash is immune to bank runs.

> If you have $10,000 then you have $10,000.

Playing devil's advocate: that's as long as the denomination doesn't change. Once it changes (for instance Cr$ -> NCr$ -> Cz$‎ -> NCz$‎ -> Cr$‎ -> CR$‎ -> R$, and I lived through most of these changes), and you're outside of a conversion grace period (when you can take your cash to a bank and exchange it for new notes), your cash is worthless; if I find an old Cr$ bill stashed somewhere (I probably still have some), they're not worth much more than the paper they're printed on. If your money is in a bank, on the other hand, it will always be converted automatically and transparently.

(On the other hand, I also lived through the infamous "confisco da poupança" which froze most of the money in everyone's bank accounts, so I can clearly see the importance of having money outside of the reach of banks. On a third hand, I also lived through the hyperinflation times, and know that having too much of your money not deposited in an interest-bearing bank account or other similarly good investment means it will lose its value quickly.)

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#345

Post by consp »

HDMI_Cable wrote: post #289
pjc50 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> roadside transactions are often done in cash You're paying 3000 Euro for eggs?

I think GP's intention was to mention the farmers themselves, who would (presumably, I'm neither a farmer nor European) receive above >€3000 in egg-revenue per week/month/annum, and then go deposit that at the bank, use it for mortgage payments, or pay for farm equipment et al. in cash.

No self respecting company buying those goods would do cash transactions to a business in the Netherlands. All perishable goods are tightly regulated and cash payments make that harder to administer.

Paying your various-shades-of-grey farmhands is another story.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#346

Post by elric »

motohagiography wrote: post #127

They can't control the black market in drugs, what makes them think controlling a black market in cash , which is a million times more desirable, will be any more successful? There's the small matter of millions of undocumented migrants entering Europe who will be trapped in this now-illegal-cash underclass, and these financial oppression laws just incentivise and create criminal networks to facilitate basic economy.…

> This is targeted at law abiding smallholding farmers where roadside transactions are often done in cash

Where (in NL) do you find farmers who routinely need to accept >3k in cash and are (somehow?) unable to accept electronic payments? Pretty much everyone everywhere can accept at least one form of electronic payments. That's a legal requirement for any business in Belgium, and I can't imagine the Dutch being that far behind on that ...

Even if you can't take card or contactless payments or apps, you can do instant bank transfers with most banks within the EU ("Instant Payments"), either free of charge or pretty cheap. There's no excuse for being unable to accept non-cash money. There are, however, plenty of reasons to be unwilling, but that's another story.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#347

Post by dijit »

whirlwin wrote: post #296
antihero wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you need cash for that?

As in why would anyone want those devices in the first place?

Please accept that people have preferences.

It will make the rest of your life a lot easier.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#348

Post by ilyt »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #147
ohgodplsno wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an EMP truly destroys most of our electronic devices, money will be the least of your worries.

The world worked fine before electronics. Sure, the adjustment period would be harsh, but it’s silly to think civilization would end completely.

The world had far fewer people before electronics, and they in part allowed for the agriculture to keep up.

Even assuming things like tractors etc. still work see how much yield local farmer will get once he can't get their fertilizers and pesticides shipped.

"harsh" is understatement, we're talking hundreds of millions dying from hunger within a year or two.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#349

Post by jaywalk »

mdrzn wrote: post #199
gspencley wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would someone need to pay for 10k in cash? The answer to this is very simple: none of your business. I take strong issue with the word "need." Why do you need that car? That television? That four bedroom house? Why do you need that bow and arrow? For sport, you say? Why not play some ball game instead? Why do you need a chess set when you can play digitally online without killing a tree? Why do you need those f…

Nothing wrong with this point of view, except that it's not shared by Europeans as far as I know (and feel). The "none of your business" doesn't work in the long run.

> The "none of your business" doesn't work in the long run.

Well, it should.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#350

Post by dr_win »

junofan wrote: post #197
dmurray wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 billion dollars! Supposing he carried a large army rucksack each time, full with 25kg of US $100 bills. That would be 2.5 million dollars a time, and it would still take him 1600 trips. If he came "every few weeks" at 20 times a year, it would take him 80 years. A billion dollars really is a lot of money. Perhaps he brought the money by wheelbarrow or car or container truck, or he dealt exclusively in €500 notes, s…

I would imagine one would invest in a van that could carry pallets.

According to the article it took him 15 years. Had been frequently visiting a single bank in Prague center (Raiffeisenbank) only with a briefcase exchanging EUR into USD in cash. Doing each time 2+2 hour round trip by train from his home town Usti nad Labem (sometimes carring up to 5M USD) .
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