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Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

rijksoverheid.nl

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Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#281

Post by dijit »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #166
SileNce5k wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice to see that there's no limit where I live which is Norway. Hopefully, there are no plans to introduce one.

I am confused by your post. What are some good reasons to allow cash payments above 3000 EUR?

You'll be downvoted, but to answer this question with all honesty:

1) Disallowing a third-party in every single transaction you make, especially as

1a) Inflation means 3k now might be quite low in 20 years

1b) Banks themselves have been shown to be scummy

1c) Banks are a rare institution to allow outsiders into.

2) Bank accounts themselves are not actually all that accessible; it's quite common for people to be ineligible for a bank account under random (but common) circumstances. -- an interesting loop you can get into is that you need to pay a utility bill in order to get a bank account, yet you can't pay a utility bill without a bank account.

3) Cash is the only fiat currency that actually exists, I know it's trendy to think that lines in a database are meaningful- but if you have physical cash you know what it's worth and it can't be hacked or seized. (though a good counterpoint is of course that you can be robbed or it can get destroyed).

I live in Sweden and we're very far down the path of "cash is dead" - there's a considerable number of stores and fast food joints that do not even accept cash. However, when I moved to this country I couldn't open a bank account and without people accepting cash at that time I would have paid exorbitant fees on each transaction.

So with that in mind I'm not in favour of restricting cash, I'm aware of the drawbacks of large fiat currency transactions; but It gives the central banks even more power than they currently have (which is a lot, which you'd know if you were on the wrong side of a policy or get into one of their loops) and we're not sure that they are going to continue to be fair into the future.

Note: you cannot hold a bank account with the central bank that actually issues currency. You are voting for a middle-man.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#282

Post by OJFord »

junofan wrote: post #131
acatton wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but no. Yes you can enter carrying as much cash, but no you cannot freely enter with over $10k in cash, they need to be reporter to the US Custom and Border Protection before entering the country https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-195?language=en_US

All travelers entering the US must complete the customs declaration forms.

'complete' doesn't mean 'enter the amount of change in your pocket, and small amount of holiday spending money rolled up in your socks' though. GP's right that you only have to declare certain things, a completed form can be 'nothing to declare', which obviously doesn't mean 'I am entering nude with no belongings'.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#283

Post by zdragnar »

hiatus wrote: post #266
shellfishgene wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are for sure tradeoffs here, but in Germany for example they recently made paying in cash for real estate illegal because it was obvious that almost all those cash transactions involved crime money of some sort. Edit: As noted below cash here refers to paper money. The same law also prohibits real estate purchase with gold, silver, diamonds or crypto currencies.

So if you sell a house and want to buy a new one, you have to pay for a mortgage you don't need?

Does Germany have no equivalent to a money order?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#284

Post by thiht »

dealuromanet wrote: post #99

[flagged]

Guessing you’re from the US, you might want to checkout your own issues regarding mass shootings, guns as the first cause of death on children, abortion, raise of Christian extremism and book bans before criticizing our rulings against noisy cars and motorcycles.

I’ll take our freedom over yours any day.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#285

Post by gambiting »

dealuromanet wrote: post #254
me_me_me wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you will see, next they will start dismantling roads and start putting in bicycle infrastructure, horrors!

Gleeful at no more easy transport in or out, eh? Will the regime, I mean The Party, oops I mean The Cabinet, also be removing the noise cameras installed along the roads when they remove the roads? Or are those going to be kept there to protect the people from ideological deviants?

>>also be removing the noise cameras installed along the roads when they remove the roads?

Why would they be paying for upkeep of cameras that do absolutely nothing?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#286

Post by dr_win »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #184
stickac wrote: post #95

There is a Financial Tyranny Index by Vexl Foundation published here: https://github.com/vexl-it/fti/blob/main/fti.pdf Among other things, it shows Cash Limits in various countries: Greece 500 EUR, Spain, Italy, France 1000 EUR, Israel 1500 EUR, ...

Who is the Vexl Foundation and why should I care about their index or what they think? I could create any index I want, along with a slick website, to deride or elevate any cause that I want.

Creators of P2P bitcoin exchange: https://vexl.it

The data is well sourced and the code is open-source. You don't have to trust or rely on their authority. Don't trust, verify!

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#287

Post by birdman3131 »

hiatus wrote: post #266
shellfishgene wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are for sure tradeoffs here, but in Germany for example they recently made paying in cash for real estate illegal because it was obvious that almost all those cash transactions involved crime money of some sort. Edit: As noted below cash here refers to paper money. The same law also prohibits real estate purchase with gold, silver, diamonds or crypto currencies.

So if you sell a house and want to buy a new one, you have to pay for a mortgage you don't need?

Cash as in the physical object. Bank transfers are different.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#288

Post by OfSanguineFire »

tomrod wrote: post #135
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Purchasing a business, a vehicle, a property These purchases are already so bound up with red tape that making the actual payment via bank transfer is hardly an inconvenience. > hush money Extortion is a crime. You are listing a person’s attempt to placate a criminal as a reason the state shouldn’t get involved? > avoiding a lawsuit Few places are so litigious as the USA, and such concerns hardly register for the p…

> These purchases are already so bound up with red tape that making the actual payment via bank transfer is hardly an inconvenience. That's a separate problem that allowing overeager regulation of currency utilization enables. > Extortion is a crime. You are listing a person’s attempt to placate a criminal as a reason the state shouldn’t get involved? Correct, extortion is a crime in some locales. Note, I said hush m…

> That's a separate problem that allowing overeager regulation of currency utilization enables.

Now it seems like you are resorting to the libertarian fantasizing that used to be so common on news-for-nerds sites.

> Note, I said hush money, not extortion.

Threatening to go public with a story when the other party might feel compelled to pay hush money, is already viewed as extortion.

> Few as litigious as the USA _so far_.

The special litigiousness of the USA is due to a number of longstanding factors including its inherited common-law system that differs from most other developed countries. It is not clear why you would expect other countries to become as litigious anytime soon.

> A better set of questions here: who benefits, and by how much, with regulating currency so tightly?

The general public who can be sure that taxes are being paid fairly and they are receiving the services they should. Again, not all countries are as culturally forgiving of tax evasion as Americans, let alone those places with even less controls over the flow of cash than the USA.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#289

Post by HDMI_Cable »

pjc50 wrote: post #222
motohagiography wrote: post #127

They can't control the black market in drugs, what makes them think controlling a black market in cash , which is a million times more desirable, will be any more successful? There's the small matter of millions of undocumented migrants entering Europe who will be trapped in this now-illegal-cash underclass, and these financial oppression laws just incentivise and create criminal networks to facilitate basic economy.…

> roadside transactions are often done in cash You're paying 3000 Euro for eggs?

I think GP's intention was to mention the farmers themselves, who would (presumably, I'm neither a farmer nor European) receive above >€3000 in egg-revenue per week/month/annum, and then go deposit that at the bank, use it for mortgage payments, or pay for farm equipment et al. in cash.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#290

Post by xxs »

declan_roberts wrote: post #232
xxs wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point taken. Wouldn't that make elderly people an easier target for assaults?

Probably harder to steal their cash than for a hacker to phish their bank accounts.

totally different set of criminals, also bank accounts are generally much, much harder to take over. The money is easy to track, and it can be reimbursed.
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