Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Slavery's last stronghold

cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 107 posts

Re: Slavery's last stronghold

#31

Post by stevoski »

maxklein wrote: post #17

No, don't believe this. The world is a very complex place, and what makes for a good story is often very different from what reality is. When American journalists write about the world, they write as if the world is America. Stories are broken down into us vs them, people become black and white, some people are assigned the label 'good' and some the label 'bad'. Everything gets americanised, even the american obsessi…

Actually, I do know about Mauritania. I've been there. I've seen the cities and the desert. I've travelled thousands of kilometres in the desert, slept in the desert. It is an open secret that slavery exists there on a wide scale.

Re: Slavery's last stronghold

#32

Post by InclinedPlane »

thomasdavis wrote: post #8

Slavery exist everywhere, we just call it 'life' or '9-5'

That is not slavery. Slavery is the absolute absence of choice and opportunity.

So-called "wage slavery" is the very poster child of "first world problems".

Oh golly gosh it sucks so much to be tied to a job you hate, doesn't it? But in the vast majority of cases that lack of perceived freedom is not an actual lack of freedom but due to choices made. Often it's due to failure to budget and save properly, failure to acquire better job skills, etc.

Get some roommates, live in the cheapest part of town, stop paying money for cable, the internet, phones, movies, restaurants, etc. You'll start saving money pretty damned quick. Then use that savings to put yourself through a trade school, or just find a different line of work where you can learn on the job and move up.

The world isn't going to hand you an out if you just sit on your ass and do the same thing over and over, you've got to make your own exit.

Re: Slavery's last stronghold

#33

Post by maxklein »

jczhang wrote: post #19
maxklein wrote: post #17

No, don't believe this. The world is a very complex place, and what makes for a good story is often very different from what reality is. When American journalists write about the world, they write as if the world is America. Stories are broken down into us vs them, people become black and white, some people are assigned the label 'good' and some the label 'bad'. Everything gets americanised, even the american obsessi…

Ok, that's fine if you're talking about the opinions in the article, but if want to refute the items presented as facts in the story, you need to back it up with facts yourself. Otherwise I would just as easily not believe you.

And that's the correct attitude. I don't say anything refuting the points in the article. I'm not against the article either. I'm pointing out that a single story does not describe a phenomena accurately.

But everyone is jumping on my comment as if I said that anything in the article is wrong.

Re: Slavery's last stronghold

#34

Post by maxklein »

TheShihan wrote: post #26
maxklein wrote: post #17

No, don't believe this. The world is a very complex place, and what makes for a good story is often very different from what reality is. When American journalists write about the world, they write as if the world is America. Stories are broken down into us vs them, people become black and white, some people are assigned the label 'good' and some the label 'bad'. Everything gets americanised, even the american obsessi…

I see you repeating again and again and not providing any background information and facts. What's exactly your problem with the article. Have you found any errors or biased stuff? If so, please highlight it for us. I get the strange feeling that you have a problem with the article because it shows that not only white people are able to enslave other human beings. Maybe you should have a look at the history of slaver…

I think you misunderstand what I am saying. If you read my comment, you'll see I'm not talking about the content of the article or saying slavery does not exist.

It's difficult to tell people "think before you decide" when the people instantly assume that I am saying something that is attacking them and immediately start aggressively defending their opinion.

Re: Slavery's last stronghold

#35

Post by maxklein »

stevoski wrote: post #31
maxklein wrote: post #17

No, don't believe this. The world is a very complex place, and what makes for a good story is often very different from what reality is. When American journalists write about the world, they write as if the world is America. Stories are broken down into us vs them, people become black and white, some people are assigned the label 'good' and some the label 'bad'. Everything gets americanised, even the american obsessi…

Actually, I do know about Mauritania. I've been there. I've seen the cities and the desert. I've travelled thousands of kilometres in the desert, slept in the desert. It is an open secret that slavery exists there on a wide scale.

And why do you assume that I am saying it does not exist? If you are widely traveled then you will understand the difference between articles and reality.

Re: Slavery's last stronghold

#36

Post by conanite »

maxklein wrote: post #33
jczhang wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, that's fine if you're talking about the opinions in the article, but if want to refute the items presented as facts in the story, you need to back it up with facts yourself. Otherwise I would just as easily not believe you.

And that's the correct attitude. I don't say anything refuting the points in the article. I'm not against the article either. I'm pointing out that a single story does not describe a phenomena accurately. But everyone is jumping on my comment as if I said that anything in the article is wrong.

You said "No, don't believe this," as if you wanted to say everything in the article is wrong.

Re: Slavery's last stronghold

#37

Post by maxklein »

conanite wrote: post #36
maxklein wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's the correct attitude. I don't say anything refuting the points in the article. I'm not against the article either. I'm pointing out that a single story does not describe a phenomena accurately. But everyone is jumping on my comment as if I said that anything in the article is wrong.

You said "No, don't believe this," as if you wanted to say everything in the article is wrong.

But then did not proceed to do so, but instead explained how lack of context in articles generally make them difficult for people to understand. People react too fast before understanding, like most people did on my comment.

Re: Slavery's last stronghold

#38

Post by yitchelle »

bmj wrote: post #30
olavk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you mean that there are higher absolute numbers of slaves today? I have a hard time believing that there is a larger percentage of slaves today than in the roman empire. That would mean there is something like a billion slaves today. Edit: Wikipedia says there are estimated 12-27 millions slaves today, which is a lot of people, but certainly not as high a percentage of the worlds population.

I agree with the grandparent, but I'm skeptical of the numbers quoted, too. Slavery, along with child and sex trafficking, is certainly still a huge problem, but because it happens in the shadows, most people don't know about it.

And, because it occurs in the shadows, the true numbers will never been known.

Re: Slavery's last stronghold

#39

Post by Maro » 

  - Men are born and remain free and equal in rights. -

  Abdel read the line again and again.

  “I started to ask myself if lies were coming out of
  this book,” he told us, “or if they were rather
  coming out of my very own culture.”
I just read V for Vendetta, the original comic book over the weekend:

  We are told to remember the idea, not the man,
  because a man can fail. He can be caught, he can be
  killed and forgotten, but 400 years later, an idea can
  still change the world.
and

  Beneath this mask there is more than flesh.
  Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy.
  And ideas are bulletproof.

Re: Slavery's last stronghold

#40

Post by wisty »

pbiggar wrote: post #28
wisty wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I half expected it to be an article on the US prison system, or the abuse of indentured migrant workers (Dubai was the poster child for a time). But this seems worse. It's not people who were conned, or made bad decisions but people who were born into slavery. Westerners have a big bias towards rational choice - there's an assumption that it's always worse to deprive someone of choice in the first place than to take…

I read a book about slavery by the guy who runs "Free the Slaves". It gave 6 case studies of slavery in the modern world, and Mauritani was one of them. It was the only one which seemed remotely humane. In all of the others - ranging from indentured servanthood (yes, still slavery) in India and Pakistan, to kidnapped children in Brazil - the people were treated as expendable. Work them til they die, then get new slav…

What I'm saying is that how they got in their situation isn't as big a factor as the conditions they are in. And yes, I think we both are making very similar arguments.
Post reply on HN