The new science of meditation

Post by jules22 » Tue, Aug 22, 2023, 9:33 PM UTC

swayvil wrote: post #110

jules22 wrote: post #56

Whenever someone talks enthusiastically about meditation, I remind myself that all the popular meditation gurus I see on Youtube talk nonsense, pseudoscience, lack common sense and use manipulative psychological tricks. None of them admit any errors and ironically are quite conceited for those who claim to have conquered ego. I am sure meditative states must feel nice. But all I see beyond that are cults and none of…

Ya, the meditation scene is 99.99% pure bullshit. And that's a crime. First job for anybody trying to figure out this stuff is to scrape away the gunk and find a pearl of truth. You have to do your own research. There is no substitute.

Post by jules22 » Tue, Aug 22, 2023, 9:38 PM UTC

jules22 wrote: post #169

DrThunder wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True... but this lends credence to the fact that it's not just a cult pseudoscience. It's actually having an effect positive or negative on people.

I did not argue that it was inert. I actually argued that 1.) not really doing what enthusiasts claimed it was specifically doing. 2.) making people become develop bizarre beliefs and generally become irrational. It can be a cult pseudoscience while not being inert.

Post by uoaei » Tue, Aug 22, 2023, 9:39 PM UTC

jules22 wrote: post #188

DrThunder wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you did the wrong sort of meditation for anxiety. Mindfulness and breathing where you see the thought come and let it go is preferred for anxiety sufferers. You should not be following your anxious thoughts. I could see how it would affect you negatively if you tried to follow all your anxious thoughts and delve into their "meaning". The goal for some with high anxiety ought to be lessening its meaning. Y…

The thing is, these "No true Scotsman" justifications only come out later. Despite significant literature on meditation psychosis, meditation is promoted as a completely safe practice and risks are almost never mentioned to new practitioners.

Post by mirekrusin » Tue, Aug 22, 2023, 9:44 PM UTC

johndhi wrote: post #73

oldstrangers wrote: post #10

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I've always sort of intuitively done this since I was a kid ( https://zchry.org/words/questioning-my-quantum-leap-an-ongoi... ). I have zero experience with meditation in the traditional sense but I'm really interested in going down that path next as I try to broaden my scope.

I used to play a game as a kid where I'd close my eyes and try not to see or imagine anything. To keep a black empty universe as the only thing I see, for as long as possible. It isn't easy!

Post by haswell » Tue, Aug 22, 2023, 9:48 PM UTC

jules22 wrote: post #172

haswell wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Supernatural claims made by meditators that are obviously not true are what keep me from experimenting with meditation. I don't want to mess up my brain. I value it. A religious friend went on a road trip and hiked deep into the Rocky Mountains. They experienced the awe and wonder of the landscape, and to them, this was God revealing himself to them. Supernatural claims by meditators are interpretations of the expe…

Your account of an awe experience is quite common. Francis Collins had a similar experience. I am not unaware of these accounts. I agree with much of what you said. But I also think it makes people a tad more open to irrationality after such experiences, even the knowledgeable ones. > that is more about each individual’s existing beliefs and the resulting framing of the experience Not disagreeing.