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The first conformant M1 GPU driver

rosenzweig.io

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Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#281

Post by JohnBooty »

gumby wrote: post #211
softfalcon wrote: post #197

I wonder if support for OpenGL, Vulkan, etc will improve now that Apple is partnering with nVidia, Adobe, Autodesk, Microsoft, etc around the OpenUSD rendering/animation/CAD/3D-scene format? Considering the whole schtick of OpenUSD is "one file format that renders consistently everywhere" (paraphrasing), I would be surprised if Apple doesn't use it as a means to cement more 3D software vendors into macOS land. It's r…

> In my experience, Apple doesn't like any standards it doesn't control with an iron fist I would add some nuance to this statement: "Apple likes open standards when it is weak." The iMac and early OS X went big on open standards, and Jobs made a point of pointing this out: USB for the iMac, JPEG, MPG, mp3, Postscript etc for OSX. IP/TCP built in. They even paid the danegeld for .rtf. Then as they clawed their way ba…

    Then as they clawed their way back from the precipice, 
    they started "adding value" again.
I don't know if I can agree. On the software side, MacOS supports all those things. On the hardware side, it's still (edit: almost) nothing but industry-standard ports.

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#282

Post by freedomben »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #221
freedomben wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I would have put it in the original (pre-edit), but better late than never :-) Yeah I've never done GPU driver hacking so I can't answer your question with optimal specificity, but there's always something new. It's usually (but not always) backwards compatible, but Apple is a special case since they are their only supported customer. That means that they can iterate very fast with flagrant disregard for backward…

> Yes I would have put it in the original (pre-edit), but better late than never :-) Huh? The clarification is in the original (pre-edit). It's the second sentence. "Right, but that clarification was pre-edit?" wasn't a hypothetical, it was making a claim.

Good point. Either other people missed it like I did, or I'm wrong about why the downvotes are happening. (or for completeness I suppose a third possibility that it was edited in later, but I'm not alleging that in any way).

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#283

Post by sbuk »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #251
mrweasel wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still don't understand why people think in 2023 that Android can not be a viable alternative to an iPhone. Because Google... I could live with not having iMessage or AirPlay, that's annoying but something I could live with. So it's either a de-googled Android phone or iPhone, and I do need a few apps which are only available in the App Store or Play Store, so I figure I'm limited to phones that can run something…

>I could live with not having iMessage So, literally any messaging app, something that non-Apple users have to do anyways, and have to deal with your bullshit about only going through iMessage when they have to send you SMS. >AirPlay Chromecast is infinitely more ubiquitous. Also, if Apple didn't patent AirPlay and refuse to share it with anyone, you wouldn't be in this situation. I will absolutely agree with Google…

> Chromecast is infinitely more ubiquitous.

Chromecast is a device.

> Also, if Apple didn't patent AirPlay and refuse to share it with anyone, you wouldn't be in this situation.

Google Cast is just as proprietary as AirPlay. Both require licensing to be included in devices. I have an LG TV that supports both, an ancient Roku device that does the same, as well as supporting Miracast. I suspect you're confusing Chromecast and the Google Cast protocol with Miracast, an open standard; one dropped by Google in favour of their proprietary stack.

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#285

Post by justin66 »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #243
ajdude wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love what they're doing, but last time I clicked a link for asahilinux on hacker news I was taken to a pop up that specifically said that readers from Hacker News are not welcomed on their site and couldn't read their content.

[flagged]

Half of the average HN users spends their their either trying to dox Asahi Lina, or to be violently transphobic towards Rosenzweig. The other half is horribly pedantic assholes.

Also, if you donate before 6PM you'll receive a free NPR mug and a t-shirt.

(I predict this year's funding drive will be less successful than last year!)

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#286

Post by gumby »

JohnBooty wrote: post #281
gumby wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my experience, Apple doesn't like any standards it doesn't control with an iron fist I would add some nuance to this statement: "Apple likes open standards when it is weak." The iMac and early OS X went big on open standards, and Jobs made a point of pointing this out: USB for the iMac, JPEG, MPG, mp3, Postscript etc for OSX. IP/TCP built in. They even paid the danegeld for .rtf. Then as they clawed their way ba…

Then as they clawed their way back from the precipice, they started "adding value" again. I don't know if I can agree. On the software side, MacOS supports all those things. On the hardware side, it's still (edit: almost) nothing but industry-standard ports.

I didn't say they necessarily denigrated the open formats but added and preferred their own proprietary image, audio etc formats as they gained market strength.

On the hardware side I'm delighted by Apple's USB C/TB push (and Apple contributed a lot to those standards, esp based on what they had learned with Lightning) but note they revived the proprietary "magsafe" connecter on recent laptops (though you can still use USB C PD). Apparently enough customers wanted it.

And as others have pointed out, Apple is hardly alone in this

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#287

Post by baby_souffle »

klausa wrote: post #227
Klonoar wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one moment where I really hate what happened to Twitter, since I feel like I recall a tweet from Marcan ages ago pointing out that Apple has fixed some things regarding 3rd party OS support. That is to say, unless I am truly off my rocker and remembering a fever dream: it's not just a "placate the anti-trust regulators" play. I'm pretty sure I've also seen it mentioned on HN itself that Linux is still used wi…

I remember reading that too, but I think it was on mastodon — I don't feel like tracking down that particular thread now, but maybe that helps you on your search :)

> I remember reading that too, but I think it was on mastodon — I don't feel like tracking down that particular thread now, but maybe that helps you on your search :)

That would be strong evidence that there's at least _some_ support internally for them but doesn't explain why they bothered at all.

The lack of explicit endorsements and documentation certainly has me thinking that at least _some_ of apple doesn't want this happening at all so they're at least going to make it hard. It may not be a "what's the bare minimum support we have to do to avoid being a poster-child for anti-competitive behavior" that's completely driving it after all.

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#288

Post by nullwarp »

sbuk wrote: post #255
paulddraper wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used Linux+Thinkpads for years. W-series, P-series, top of the line Switched to Mac M1 this year, and....longer battery life, better performance, higher resolution, brighter screen...it's not even close.

I have an M1 Pro 14 and a work-issued P14s, which is awful. Creaky plastic, the worst trackpad I've ever used, has a terrible display, spongey keys and runs unfathomably hot. All. The. Time. Every time I see someone recommending Lenovo, I cringe. It is night and day when compared to the MacBook Pro.

Weirdly I have both of these as well and feel total opposite. Give me the Thinkpad keyboard any day of the week. The mac keyboard feels down right anemic.

I wish mac would stop making the track pad so damn big though, the amount of palm activations I have on that thing drive me bonkers.

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#289

Post by galaxyLogic »

foobiekr wrote: post #245
gumby wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my experience, Apple doesn't like any standards it doesn't control with an iron fist I would add some nuance to this statement: "Apple likes open standards when it is weak." The iMac and early OS X went big on open standards, and Jobs made a point of pointing this out: USB for the iMac, JPEG, MPG, mp3, Postscript etc for OSX. IP/TCP built in. They even paid the danegeld for .rtf. Then as they clawed their way ba…

You might actually expand "Apple likes open standards when it is weak" to "companies likes open standards when they are weak." Generally speaking you get standards consortiums when there is a clear winner that is mopping up the space. Here's an example that's happening right now: Nvidia-NvLink-Infiniband. Nvidia owns the highspeed interconnect inside the chassis (HGX), the NICs (Mellanox), the inter-host interconnect…

> they are also routinely about the losers joining together to compete.

That is the greatness of it. It reminds me of democracy: The less powerful join together to give everyone an equal vote, rather than having one vote per dollar.

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#290

Post by baby_souffle »

klausa wrote: post #121
baby_souffle wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's really disappointing to see everyone bashing Apple when it's clear to anyone paying attention that they made a conscious decision to leave the door open for 3rd party development. Maybe I'm just a jaded grey-beard but I suspect that this is more of a "placate the anti-trust regulators" play and not a genuine olive branch offering. Apple gets to say "see, look! Not only are we not locking people out - there's a…

I can’t imagine any reasonable argument that would make Apple be a target for an anti-trust action for _Macs_. I understand skepticism and not always giving corporations the benefit of the doubt, but they _clearly_ spent a lot of time and resources to make third-party OSes viable on Apple Sillicon Macs.

> I can’t imagine any reasonable argument that would make Apple be a target for an anti-trust action for _Macs_.

Why can't the same "there is no OS except iOS allowed on iPhones" argument be applied here? If the only os that boots on a macbook is macOS, that's starting to smell like anti-competitive behavior the same way that only app store approved apps can run on iOS is anti-competitive.

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