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5 years ago Valve released Proton

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Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#171

Post by mschuster91 »

adhamsalama wrote: post #117
MBCook wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if Apple could get over their stubbornness and work with Valve Maybe Value should give more an 10% of a thought to the Mac and make Steam not be terrible on the Mac first. They don’t care about the Mac. They only care about Linux because it lets them ship the Steam Deck and have a hedge against MS. The Mac is worse than an afterthought.

Why would Valve do this for a trillion-dollar walled-garden?

Because at least CPU-wise, the M SoCs blast a lot of the x86/64 competition to pieces. GPU is another story, although unified memory is inherently better than the current situation on x86/64.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#172

Post by domdabgnad »

swozey wrote: post #134
gumballindie wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not switch to linux though? You know there's some real cool hardware available out there that looks and feels way better than a mac, and battery aside, can do a lot more, is upgradeable and not locked in. Just a thought.

This is hilariously biased. This is HN, you're not talking to people who don't know what Linux is. Hell, a huge portion of us are linux engineers of various sorts. You're also in a thread literally about a linux app. Anyway. I would never, ever use Linux as a desktop environment over OSX after the experiences I've had with it over the last 20+ years. OSX GUI applications absolutely blow everything that Linux has out…

lol. SoundSource looks identical to `pavucontrol` which I've been using for close to a decade, without ever touching a single bit of configuration, ever, for PulseAudio or PipeWire.

Or a single line to install EasyEffects which adds effects in the mix, also with zero configuration.

I'm not exaggerating. Tell me something you think SoundSource can do, and I'll show you me doing the same thing with Pavucontrol or EasyEffects in my entirely stock setup.

But sure. You found a screenshot of the ultimate Pipewire power tool that allows you to do things I guarantee SoundSource doesn't, and ran with it.

>They look great and there are a LOT of them that do pretty unique things that I haven't seen in Windows or Linux.

Oh?

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#173

Post by swozey »

domdabgnad wrote: post #172
swozey wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hilariously biased. This is HN, you're not talking to people who don't know what Linux is. Hell, a huge portion of us are linux engineers of various sorts. You're also in a thread literally about a linux app. Anyway. I would never, ever use Linux as a desktop environment over OSX after the experiences I've had with it over the last 20+ years. OSX GUI applications absolutely blow everything that Linux has out…

lol. SoundSource looks identical to `pavucontrol` which I've been using for close to a decade, without ever touching a single bit of configuration, ever , for PulseAudio or PipeWire. Or a single line to install EasyEffects which adds effects in the mix, also with zero configuration. I'm not exaggerating. Tell me something you think SoundSource can do, and I'll show you me doing the same thing with Pavucontrol or Easy…

lol cool. This app looks like complete trash, and I guarantee isn't as feature filled out of the box, like I said.

But sure.

pavucontrol https://freedesktop.org/software/pulseaudio/pavucontrol//scr... soundsource https://rogueamoeba.com/soundsource/images/hero@2x.png

I love those of you who think an OSX user wouldn't know linux/linux apps.

edit: Yeah, this does nothing that soundsource does. I wish some of you would actually read the features and stop posting these volume control apps. Not to mention Soundsource was just a quick example. I could name 50 more apps that don't have a Linux alternative or one that is of any quality.

Literally - "A simple volume control tool (mixer) for the PulseAudio sound server."

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#174

Post by domdabgnad »

swozey wrote: post #173
domdabgnad wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol. SoundSource looks identical to `pavucontrol` which I've been using for close to a decade, without ever touching a single bit of configuration, ever , for PulseAudio or PipeWire. Or a single line to install EasyEffects which adds effects in the mix, also with zero configuration. I'm not exaggerating. Tell me something you think SoundSource can do, and I'll show you me doing the same thing with Pavucontrol or Easy…

lol cool. This app looks like complete trash, and I guarantee isn't as feature filled out of the box, like I said. But sure. pavucontrol https://freedesktop.org/software/pulseaudio/pavucontrol//scr... soundsource https://rogueamoeba.com/soundsource/images/hero@2x.png I love those of you who think an OSX user wouldn't know linux/linux apps. edit: Yeah, this does nothing that soundsource does. I wish some of you would…

Then you would name a feature that SoundSource does that Pavucontrol doesn't. But you don't actually know what you're talking about.

For all the talk, it should be trivial for you to make me look foolish right now. Like, so easy, right?

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#175

Post by DiabloD3 »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #162
DiabloD3 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UWP is dead, and a lot of the people who were pushing that weirdly locked in platform have been pushed out of the company. All future stuff is moving to WinUI 3.x (which belongs to the same family of C# XAML UI libraries, and Visual Studio has a wizard to help you turn your UWP app into a real C# app) and the Microsoft Store is no longer locked to UWP apps only and WinUI 3.x is officially supported on other non-CLR l…

Well, it's Microsoft, so every 5 years they release a new API/framework and declare the old one dead/obsolete. But they usually maintain backwards compatibility to their credit, and I almost never credit Microsoft with anything. whatever was before MFC (I remember using a Charles Petzold book in 1997) --> MFC --> dotNet (many versions) --> XAML/WPF --> UWP and I guess WinUI now.

That isn't quite right.

Notice how WinUI 3.x is the first thing named publicly named WinUI, but its already at 3? UWP is 2.x, Metro/WinRT/WPF is 1.x. They're all part of the same family of XAML UIs.

The part that got hard killed, and backwards support was absolutely 100% murdered was the Silverlight stuff, which was a XAML predecessor (and RIA runtime to compete with Flash/Air) written entirely in C#. For performance reasons, the WinRT/WPF->UWP->WinUI 3 branch of the family is largely WinRT-dialect C++.

So no, Microsoft actually hasn't abandoned the tech, they abandoned the dumb idea that all apps need to work on the Windows Phone (which no longer exists) and must be released on the Microsoft Store (which now allows apps in other languages), and everything has to be written in C# (which, again, is no longer forced on programmers), and everything needs to be Windows-only (Project Reunion aka MAUI brings both CLR and non-CLR WinUI apps to Linux).

Also, I'm not sure why you're branching WinUI family off from .net, as WinUI is the UI toolkit for CLR apps.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#176

Post by MBCook »

adhamsalama wrote: post #117
MBCook wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if Apple could get over their stubbornness and work with Valve Maybe Value should give more an 10% of a thought to the Mac and make Steam not be terrible on the Mac first. They don’t care about the Mac. They only care about Linux because it lets them ship the Steam Deck and have a hedge against MS. The Mac is worse than an afterthought.

Why would Valve do this for a trillion-dollar walled-garden?

Why release a crappy product on Mac and leave it that way for over a decade?

Don’t know. But that’s what they’ve done.

If I were Apple, I wouldn’t partner with someone who clearly didn’t give 2 shits about my platform.

(In reality Value doesn’t need Apple. And Apple would never partner anyway, they don’t do that)

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#177

Post by [deleted] »

domdabgnad wrote: post #172
swozey wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hilariously biased. This is HN, you're not talking to people who don't know what Linux is. Hell, a huge portion of us are linux engineers of various sorts. You're also in a thread literally about a linux app. Anyway. I would never, ever use Linux as a desktop environment over OSX after the experiences I've had with it over the last 20+ years. OSX GUI applications absolutely blow everything that Linux has out…

lol. SoundSource looks identical to `pavucontrol` which I've been using for close to a decade, without ever touching a single bit of configuration, ever , for PulseAudio or PipeWire. Or a single line to install EasyEffects which adds effects in the mix, also with zero configuration. I'm not exaggerating. Tell me something you think SoundSource can do, and I'll show you me doing the same thing with Pavucontrol or Easy…

[deleted]

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#178

Post by swozey »

domdabgnad wrote: post #174
swozey wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol cool. This app looks like complete trash, and I guarantee isn't as feature filled out of the box, like I said. But sure. pavucontrol https://freedesktop.org/software/pulseaudio/pavucontrol//scr... soundsource https://rogueamoeba.com/soundsource/images/hero@2x.png I love those of you who think an OSX user wouldn't know linux/linux apps. edit: Yeah, this does nothing that soundsource does. I wish some of you would…

Then you would name a feature that SoundSource does that Pavucontrol doesn't. But you don't actually know what you're talking about. For all the talk, it should be trivial for you to make me look foolish right now. Like, so easy, right?

  Show me the UI for telling a specific application to redirect its audio output to a specific device automatically. 
  Show me the UI where I plug in a specific device it switches a specific applications (not all) default automatically to the new device.
  Show me it's headphone EQ. 
  Show me per-app headphone EQ. 
  Show me per app EQ settings. 
  Show me the built in 3D/spatial audio for headphones
Then show me the config file you had to edit to set all of this up. And show me how clean and attractive the UI doing all this is. Then show me it in Pipewire because I don't care about Pulseaudio anyway and would never use that in 2023 with my need for low latency due to my DAW/equipment. Then, in Pipewire, show me how to all this without using Wireplumber or Mixx.

I didn't say you couldn't do things in XYZ. I said the configuration of doing so sucks compared to doing it in another app. Soundsource was just an example. I don't know why you care so much. I could've said Pixelmator (GIMP?) or 30 other apps.

PS: "For all the talk, it should be trivial for you to make me look foolish right now. Like, so easy, right?"

You're this heated up because I like an OSX app more than Linux options? You're acting like I personally care about "winning" this argument. Even if it has these features I still wouldn't use the app. Aesthetics and ease of use is important to my day to day machine. Win the "argument" all you want.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#179

Post by gumballindie »

swozey wrote: post #168
augusto-moura wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reply is also biased, maybe we had some bad experience in the past, but the example you made, Pipewire, is one of the things I was stunned that worked out of the box. It is relatively recent but it is already installed by default on most modern distros, and no "configuration hell" required. Linux applications might not be as good-looking as most of Apple store ones, but most of them sure work. I'm not saying tha…

Of course it comes installed so you can listen to audio. That isn't what Soundsource does - you CAN make Pipewire work like soundsource, though. Of course my post is biased. I gave my opinion as someone who uses both vs someone who only uses linux and doesn't know osx. Any Linux user telling me that "Linux does more than OSX" is getting my biased reply. Per app audio redirection, per app effects, per app volume contr…

My mac mini and macbook pro would attest that i do know osx and indeed i have been using it for 15 years in work environments. Right after i switched to these from linux, to which i switched from windows and freebsd. Now back to linux. It’s come a long way.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#180

Post by swozey »

gumballindie wrote: post #179
swozey wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it comes installed so you can listen to audio. That isn't what Soundsource does - you CAN make Pipewire work like soundsource, though. Of course my post is biased. I gave my opinion as someone who uses both vs someone who only uses linux and doesn't know osx. Any Linux user telling me that "Linux does more than OSX" is getting my biased reply. Per app audio redirection, per app effects, per app volume contr…

My mac mini and macbook pro would attest that i do know osx and indeed i have been using it for 15 years in work environments. Right after i switched to these from linux, to which i switched from windows and freebsd. Now back to linux. It’s come a long way.

Gotcha, sorry.
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