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Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

arunraghavan.net

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Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#181

Post by light_hue_1 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #94
light_hue_1 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in a building with a research reactor for years. In my office I had other students from China. A student from Iran worked on the reactor. We all went in tours together. This is not a federal rule. No one was required to be any distance away from the reactor based on their nationality. No one checked passports at the entrance to our building. The doors were just open. That's why you can't find this rule onlin…

> No one was required to be any distance away from the reactor based on their nationality. No one checked passports at the entrance to our building. Just because nobody enforces the rule doesn't mean it doesn't exist? It could be that the people who were supposed to enforce it correctly determined that the whole idea is BS and decided to save time. It doesn't mean the rule doesn't exist and it can come back at anytim…

No. It's not a rule that doesn't get enforced.

Our reactor had plenty of rules. The NRC visits regularly and inspects your security among many other things.

I know graduate students from Iran in nuclear engineering on grants by the federal government who worked with the reactor. This is not a rule.

There are enough problems out there, we don't need to invent more.

These are the basic rules in case you're curious.

https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/cfr/part073/p...

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#183

Post by indigo945 »

paganel wrote: post #172
xenophonf wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is there any problem in asking for a tourist visa even if your intention is attending a conference? In the U.S.A., lying on a government form is illegal, https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001 . I can't imagine other countries treating that differently.

That would explain the "are you a terrorist?" forms I've heard they're asking people to fill in on their flights to the US.

That's actually precisely the reason. [1] It's not always easily possible to arrest somebody for having been or even being a terrorist abroad, but you can definitely arrest them for lying on their visa application papers.

[1]: Well, probably. The Department of Homeland Security doesn't give an official reason: "The Department of Homeland Security did not explain the reason for this question, and it is not clear why any terrorist, spy, saboteur or mass murderer would answer “yes.” Doing so, whether or not by mistake, does not mean that the person will be banned from the United States, but it doesn’t help." (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/30/world/europe/terrorist-qu...)

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#184

Post by vient »

martin8412 wrote: post #171
vient wrote: post #16

There is also a specific subset of this problem named "USA conferences on themes from Technology Alert List" with common examples being information security conferences like DEFCON or BlackHat. Just mentioning such conference during visa application may already give you headache, and usually you work in this field if you go to such conference - working in critical field automatically gets you an administrative proces…

Guess I shouldn't have said that I was attending DEF CON to the CBP agent at Dublin Airport, but I was just told to have a nice time in Vegas

I should clarify that my friends and I are Russian citizens. I can imagine that entering USA is easier for an Irish citizen but I've heard not once or twice about Russian/Chinese/... speakers that were not able to get visa in time or were prohibited to enter US.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#185

Post by distant_hat »

vient wrote: post #16

There is also a specific subset of this problem named "USA conferences on themes from Technology Alert List" with common examples being information security conferences like DEFCON or BlackHat. Just mentioning such conference during visa application may already give you headache, and usually you work in this field if you go to such conference - working in critical field automatically gets you an administrative proces…

As an Indian the UK visa is way more work than US and the other part is US often gives you a 10 year visa whereas the UK gives 6 month visas so you have to go through the whole process every so often. EU is also more work. You often need to show hotel bookings, flights both ways and so on and if it gets rejected it is a lot of effort down the drain.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#186

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #117
nirbheek wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there are two problems: 1. You are misrepresenting the purpose of your visit and you can get deported and/or barred from entering the country. For example, you can be stopped and asked for your passport at any time (this has happened to me multiple times, even though technically it's against Schengen rules). 2. Visiting for 2-3 days makes sense for a conference, but it makes no sense for a vacation and you will…

>Visiting for 2-3 days // Long weekend "city breaks" are pretty common amongst the UK middle classes. Can you not go to a conference when in holiday? Isn't the difference who is paying - if you pay then it's a holiday, if work pays then it's business. Could work just give you a bonus to cover the amount at some later point? What's the rationale for not allowing business travel but allowing the same people to travel f…

> Long weekend "city breaks" are pretty common amongst the UK middle classes.

In Europe with a 1-3 hour time difference and a 1-4 hour flight, yes.

In New York with a 5-hour time difference and an 8-hour flight, not so common. I'm sure that it happens, but it's not at all common. Jetlag alone would make that an athletic event, if your "leaving front door, returning back to front door" time is under 72 hours.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#188

Post by FredPret »

tough wrote: post #13
sampo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side note: EU is planning to retaliate, and just as US is requiring ESTA from EU citizens traveling to US, in 2024 EU will start to require a similar application caller ETIAS, from US citizens traveling to EU. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Travel_Information_an...

People on twitter seems to think this is the -end- of American tourism for Europe, funny how just bringing the same standards suddenly makes us a no-visiting place. FFS

Americans have many destination options, including America. Any barrier is going to reduce the number somewhat

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#190

Post by vladvasiliu »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #186
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Visiting for 2-3 days // Long weekend "city breaks" are pretty common amongst the UK middle classes. Can you not go to a conference when in holiday? Isn't the difference who is paying - if you pay then it's a holiday, if work pays then it's business. Could work just give you a bonus to cover the amount at some later point? What's the rationale for not allowing business travel but allowing the same people to travel f…

> Long weekend "city breaks" are pretty common amongst the UK middle classes. In Europe with a 1-3 hour time difference and a 1-4 hour flight, yes. In New York with a 5-hour time difference and an 8-hour flight, not so common. I'm sure that it happens, but it's not at all common. Jetlag alone would make that an athletic event, if your "leaving front door, returning back to front door" time is under 72 hours.

I'm not saying you're wrong and that I'd do that. But I've seen many travel agencies offer "New York weekend" package deals here in France. If they're doing that, I assume enough people take them up on it.
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