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Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

arunraghavan.net

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Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#111

Post by mhitza »

ido wrote: post #7
darkwater wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding the US, as an European the ESTA is tied to the passport, so when it expires (or you lose it and have to renew it), you have to redo it. So yeah, usually it's ~10 years. EDIT: sorry for the misinformation, ESTA expires after 2 years OR when the passport expires [0] [0] https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-1126?language=en_US

I thought EU citizens no longer need a visa to the US ahead of time at all[0]? [0] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-...

> I thought EU citizens no longer need a visa

Overwhelming majority yes, exceptions are citizens of: Romania, Bulgaria and Cyprus.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#112

Post by amirs »

ido wrote: post #6
amirs wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the US you sometimes might get a visa that's valid only for a year, and in some extreme cases I've seen people receive visas for 30 days surrounding a specific event they were traveling for .

What does this depend on? I (Israeli citizen) always got 10 year visas to the US (now on my 3rd one).

Funnily enough those instances I described are based on Israelis as well.

From what I gather it mostly depends on how the person reviewing your application thinks it's likely you might break your visa terms (stay longer than you should, work when you're not allowed to). Usually happens for younger people or people involved with problematic industries (military etc)

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#113

Post by Ar-Curunir »

reshlo wrote: post #73
sriram_malhar wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read till the end? Look at the last section titled "What can you do"; I reproduce the list here. - Announce the dates of the conference as early as possible (allows participants to book travel, visa appointments, maybe club multiple conferences) - Provide invitation letters in a timely manner - Call for participation as early as possible - Notify speakers as soon as you can This is a very reasonable ask. Each…

The text preceding that list is “if … you want a diverse audience ”, which suggests they’re asking conference organisers to send personalised invitation letters to every foreigner who wants to attend, not just speakers. That could mean thousands of letters.

If a person has registered for a conference (which I imagine involves paying money), it’s the responsibility of the conference organizer to provide a visa invitation letter (which can just be derived from a template; doesn’t have to be specialized), as many visa applications require such a letter. Otherwise they should refund the money and not accept applications from foreign participants at all.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#114

Post by brightball »

dagw wrote: post #109
brightball wrote: post #90

I just finished running the Carolina Code Conference this weekend and I do want to comment on this part: > But if you’re in my position, you need at least 2-3 months between the first and the last step. If your attendance is conditional on speaking at the conference (for example, if your company will only sponsor you if you’re speaking), then you need a minimum of 2-3 months between when speakers are notified and the…

As an organizer you need your speakers confirmed 2-3 months out so that you can announce them I don't think I've ever been to conference where all the speakers were announced more than a couple of day before the conference, and certainly way after last registration. Also I've never gone to a conference specifically because I wanted to see any of the speakers. Do people choose which conferences to go to based on the m…

I know I do.

Topics and speakers specifically. The lineup is a huge factor.

I’m sure we all have our reasons but it’s something I put a huge emphasis on personally.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#115

Post by Ar-Curunir »

azangru wrote: post #66
yarpen_z wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great advice for any PhD student or researcher! Do you have any other valuable advice? How about just give up and quit your job? It would have the same effect.

> How about just give up and quit your job? It would have the same effect. If by "it would have the same effect" you mean that it will be ignored, then maybe. But if you are saying that not attending international conferences is the same as not getting a job as a researcher in the first place, then I find this an exaggeration. Especially considering that one can participate in the scientific process by submitting the…

Have you ever participated in a research community? You’re going to be at a severe disadvantage compared to peers in the US if you’re unable to promote your work to, and network with, the leaders in your field (the majority of whom are based in the global North).

Also, many of the top publishing venues in CS are conferences, and it is not uncommon for them to require in-person presentations as a condition for acceptance.

So, in sum, if you want to have a scientific career, attending conferences in the US/Europe is almost a must, at least in CS.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#116

Post by Semaphor »

bombcar wrote: post #107
thaumasiotes wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And that’s not even talking about them marriage itself as SA is not one of those countries where you can (ab)use easy Danish marriages What is this about? I'm not sure whatever phenomena you're referring to are well known outside of Germany.

Some countries don’t let you “change visa” without returning home. So if you’re in Germany on a tourist or student visa, and decide to get married, you have to fly home and apply for a marriage visa or whatever it is. Other countries let you basically “update the visa online” or at the embassy.

Pretty much this, some countries are allowed to change visas while in Germany, so you can get married in Denmark, which is an easy affair and doesn’t take much. Then you go to Germany, and the marriage is accepted there, and you can now change it to a spousal visa.

Instead, she had to swear 3 times (twice in writing, once in person at the civil registry) that she’s not married either ritually, customary, or by law. Among other fun documents we needed.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#117

Post by pbhjpbhj »

nirbheek wrote: post #95
i_no_can_eat wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting to know, thanks. Let me then ask: if getting a tourist visa is simpler, is there any problem in asking for a tourist visa even if your intention is attending a conference?

Yes, there are two problems: 1. You are misrepresenting the purpose of your visit and you can get deported and/or barred from entering the country. For example, you can be stopped and asked for your passport at any time (this has happened to me multiple times, even though technically it's against Schengen rules). 2. Visiting for 2-3 days makes sense for a conference, but it makes no sense for a vacation and you will…

>Visiting for 2-3 days //

Long weekend "city breaks" are pretty common amongst the UK middle classes.

Can you not go to a conference when in holiday? Isn't the difference who is paying - if you pay then it's a holiday, if work pays then it's business. Could work just give you a bonus to cover the amount at some later point?

What's the rationale for not allowing business travel but allowing the same people to travel for tourism?

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#118

Post by ghaff »

brightball wrote: post #114
dagw wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an organizer you need your speakers confirmed 2-3 months out so that you can announce them I don't think I've ever been to conference where all the speakers were announced more than a couple of day before the conference, and certainly way after last registration. Also I've never gone to a conference specifically because I wanted to see any of the speakers. Do people choose which conferences to go to based on the m…

I know I do. Topics and speakers specifically. The lineup is a huge factor. I’m sure we all have our reasons but it’s something I put a huge emphasis on personally.

Announcing a couple months out is pretty typical. But it doesn't really influence whether I attend an event or not. And if there's some keynoter I really want to see, there's always video.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#119

Post by pbhjpbhj »

xenophonf wrote: post #104
i_no_can_eat wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting to know, thanks. Let me then ask: if getting a tourist visa is simpler, is there any problem in asking for a tourist visa even if your intention is attending a conference?

> is there any problem in asking for a tourist visa even if your intention is attending a conference? In the U.S.A., lying on a government form is illegal, https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001 . I can't imagine other countries treating that differently.

Is it necessarily lying?

If you go to a conference for a hobby that's tourism, right?

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#120

Post by gumby »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #117
nirbheek wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there are two problems: 1. You are misrepresenting the purpose of your visit and you can get deported and/or barred from entering the country. For example, you can be stopped and asked for your passport at any time (this has happened to me multiple times, even though technically it's against Schengen rules). 2. Visiting for 2-3 days makes sense for a conference, but it makes no sense for a vacation and you will…

>Visiting for 2-3 days // Long weekend "city breaks" are pretty common amongst the UK middle classes. Can you not go to a conference when in holiday? Isn't the difference who is paying - if you pay then it's a holiday, if work pays then it's business. Could work just give you a bonus to cover the amount at some later point? What's the rationale for not allowing business travel but allowing the same people to travel f…

> Long weekend "city breaks" are pretty common amongst the UK middle classes.

Maybe to the Costa Del Sol, but not the lovely city of Melbourne.

The overhead of flying from India to Europe makes a 2-3 day holiday pretty unlikely. The flights depart in the middle of the night, and then there is jet lag.

> Can you not go to a conference when in holiday?

That is immigration fraud. If you’re a white Australian coming to the UK and doing that I seriously doubt there will be any negative consequence (source: an unofficial comment during an unfortunate visit to the Home Office). People in other situations may not fare as well.

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