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Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

nature.com

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Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#161

Post by elwell »

xtiansimon wrote: post #111
psychphysic wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paper suggests rTMS to disrupt the disruptive activities. The emotional challenge in this study was that you had a joystick and sometimes you pulled that joystick towards you when you saw an unhappy face. That's what was paralysing emotional challenge was for highly anxious people. Meaning it's unlikely their PFl could have any control in real life scenarios. It's important to note that in both anxious and non-an…

> “Like driving a car as a learner your whole life, I remember the first driving lesson I had, I couldn't even focus with the radio on.” This reminded me of starting to ride a motorcycle (again) in 2021. Lots of anxiety and stress. Two years later I’m not as stressed. But, each near-accident I’ve had was following not paying attention. Thinking about this on a ride over the weekend, I mused about solo-jet fighter pil…

> realizing failure is not life threatening

That doesn't hold true when it comes to riding a motorcycle though. Maybe the fear is warranted.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#162

Post by kdmccormick »

jplusequalt wrote: post #152
Aeolun wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can sort of see how you get there? “I know you are afraid of walking through a crowd of people, but think of how many people do that every day. Think of all those times when you were 15 when you did it without any problem.” E.g. your problem isn’t real, it’s all in your mind. Which of course it is, that’s kind of the point :)

From the outside, it's easy to dismiss an anxious individuals fears as nothing more than thoughts in their head that are (sometimes, but not always) completely removed from reality. But from the perspective of the anxious person whose sympathetic nervous system is causing elevated heart rates, shaky sweaty hands and feet, heart palpitations and chest pain, pressure headaches, and brain fog, the problem may seem a tad…

Agreed, and I think GP mostly agrees with you too, their phrasing was just confusing.

As a bipolar person I have come to semi-ironically embrace the "it's all in your mind" mindset, but with the understanding that literally EVERYTHING is in our minds, and there is no clean distinction between physical and mental symptoms. Mental and physical illness are one and the same, because our body feeds our brain and our brain runs our body.

Simple example: a stomachache involves your brain noticing and reacting to something going on in your stomach. Is it your brain's fault for telling you your stomach is upset, or your stomach's fault for having the conditions to be upset, or your brain's fault for leading your stomach to have the conditions to be upset, or your stomach's fault for altering your brai chemistry so that it has the conditions to lead your stomach to.... etc, you can understand how fuzzy it all is.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#163

Post by ajani »

dboreham wrote: post #145
ajani wrote: post #10

This is just tedious. The electro-chemical map of the brain that is built and used to study it, is so primitive. Almost certainly, "the brain" tunes itself to its environment and inner states from a preformed inner structure through evolution. A lot of what is in the brain, is not actually to be found in the brain, or by studying it materially. The "formwork" that formed it, is lost in evolutionary time. Unfortunatel…

Don't understand the downvotes because I get exactly what you're saying -- it's like poking around in the data for an LLM and expecting to find a written language algorithm. Taking things further -- I think it's unlikely that much of the brain's operating software came via DNA. It's mostly machine learned from the environment and other humans. We call this child development.

> It's mostly machine learned from the environment and other humans. We call this child development.

Yes, exactly. The software lies in humanity collectively. Not inside us, but in between us.

Which is why it cannot lie entirely in the brain. At least not entirely in one brain.

A new node born into the network, learns the network. Individual nodes perish, and new ones replace them. But the network doesn't go down. Or it hasn't yet.

Much of conscious experience is the network. Isolation is painful because it deregulates the connection to the network.

But even on the "hardware" side, there must be so many kinds of developments that must occur simultaneously. Some of it is as you say, environment based child development. Others that we may not quite be aware of, say patterns of neural firing, or growth patterns. Such developments probably get passed on in shape (DNA or X) to the next generation.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#164

Post by alexo67 »

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #5

It's always fear, isn't it? We're afraid to approach people, afraid to ask for help, afraid that someone might react in the worst possible way or something really bad might happen. But obviously, it never happens the way we imagine. Reality is 100% of the time, different from our imagination and yet, many of us still fail to remember that. Every good opportunity that I ever got, was from me coming out of my comfort z…

The thing is, if you really know it's just a fear, it's much easier to name it and overcome it. I know from myself that the worst thing that can be is anxiety of unknown origin.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#165

Post by fellowmartian »

psychphysic wrote: post #143
fellowmartian wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One potential problem with this approach is that a person might not actually fear driving a car but dying in general, and this fear spills over into all parts of life. I don’t think you can CBT your way out of it.

I think that's just the type of problem CBT practitioners love to work on.

I think it’s a “if all you have is a hammer” situation. In my experience and from talking to different therapists CBT is ill-equipped to deal with existential problems because it doesn’t embrace them or helps patients learn from them. Existential therapy or other forms of psychoanalysis is better suited, in my opinion.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#167

Post by firebirdn99 »

tacker2000 wrote: post #147
Aurornis wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To me this is not necessarily dysfunctional. If it wasn’t dysfunctional, it wouldn’t be a diagnosed with mental health condition to begin with. I think this is a concept that is getting lost in mainstream mental health discourse: There is a big difference between anxiety the emotion and anxiety the mental health disorder . Similar story for depression and concentration struggles. It’s normal to feel anxious at time…

I also see that some of these types of people you mention wear this (imagined or not) ADHD “status” as some kind of badge of honor, so that they may feel superior to or more special than “normal” people. Weird times.

I think it's always been that way to some extent. There's some element of being human, where we seek empathy from others or pity if you will to a degree. I know I've done it, where I made justifications for something I have difficulty in.

It's just now there's a lot more of it, where there is a lot more awareness of disabilities, and empathy rightfully but also means more people are inclined to maybe take the easy way out through diagnoses or taking medication to cover for some emotional issues. If there is no other way, then you should seek out meds,etc. But it is part of being human, to understand and overcome some difficulties through perseverance, resilience, or emotional work.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#168

Post by loveiswork »

lynx23 wrote: post #58
jh00ker wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This book by David Burns [1] taught me that ACTION comes first, AND THEN motivation arrives. If you lay there and wait to be motivated, it will never happen. Specifically: 1. Action 2. Results 3. Motivation 4. Repeat! Anti-pattern: 1. Motivation 2. Action 3. Results 4. Does not work When I notice myself using self-talk like "ugh, I just don't feel like it" I thing of A-R-M and it helps. 1: https://amzn.to/3shnZlg

I am assuing this is in the context of some kind of mental health issue? Because this reads and feels backwards to me. Maybe it is a recipe for people without motivation, and that is fine. But I, for one, am mostly driven by motivation. I dont do things just because they are written on a list, or because someone told me it is supposedly good. I do things because I am intrinsically motivated to do so, or not. Just per…

> I am assuing this is in the context of some kind of mental health issue?

Yes, if you are already 'self-actualized', you don't need to be thinking about behavior modification frameworks, your behaviors are already serving you.

Some people have circumstances and long-lived reactions and behaviors for those circumstances that make it very difficult to change course, even if they have a real desire to. This 'disconnectedness' between lived experience and personal goals and values can lead to a lot of anguish. In those cases, following a framework, even though it can feel 'weird', can lead to the positive sparks required for change.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#169

Post by johnchristopher »

jh00ker wrote: post #16
xyzelement wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. This hit me a few weeks ago when I was considering a long workout class ln Peloton. I was hesitant to hit the start button because it was late, I was tired, etc. Then I realized that it was genuinely harder to hit play than to actually do the class. Literally I've done thousands of workouts and have never regretted one, yet every time there's this negotiation to not do it. I am connecting that to your "reali…

This book by David Burns [1] taught me that ACTION comes first, AND THEN motivation arrives. If you lay there and wait to be motivated, it will never happen. Specifically: 1. Action 2. Results 3. Motivation 4. Repeat! Anti-pattern: 1. Motivation 2. Action 3. Results 4. Does not work When I notice myself using self-talk like "ugh, I just don't feel like it" I thing of A-R-M and it helps. 1: https://amzn.to/3shnZlg

> Anti-pattern:

>

> 1. Motivation

> 2. Action

> 3. Results

> 4. Does not work

Action and discipline (the habit of doing the same action) beat motivation everytime. And yet you will find people on HN that will fight to death that motivation is enough or that motivation is the moving force of discipline. Up to redefining words if needed. I think it's because of the warped guilt trip of the saying "you didn't do it/achieve it because you weren't motivated enough" and the "entrepreneuship" spirit of the audience who needs to believe that they can succeed no matter what and motivation is the main factor because it's something fuzzy enough they can say they had it or hadn't when they fail/succeed and ignore the hard unpleasant things like hard work, luck, skills, talent, etc.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#170

Post by jassyr »

petesergeant wrote: post #80

If you suffer from anxiety, and haven't tried any of the following yet, worth giving a go: escitalopram (with medical supervision, also 10mg did nothing for me, 20mg was life changing), ingesting silexan / lavendar oil, L-Theanine with your coffee, less coffee, less alcohol, propanalol (see a dr) instead of benzos for break-through anxiety, ashwagandha.

I second escitalopram. 10mg changed my life.
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