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Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

arunraghavan.net

161–170 of 241 posts

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#161
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I suggest you take a step back and think about how your comments come across so as not to unintentionally come off more harsh than you want. In fact what I was replying to was someone saying it was an event organizer's "duty" to write invitation letters for conference attendees for Visa purposes, which it is objectively not. The country is irrelevant, the economic development of the country is irrelevant.

You literally just told me off saying it has nothing to do with anything though it was part of the context, and you tell me I'm harsh. The nature of context is it does not stop existing just because you don't mention it.

I very much agree it's exactly organizer's duty to write visa invitations, and without prejudice and discrimination, and if they want they can do other things to combat abuse as I suggest.

Whereas your idea that "it's not his(sic) job to do anything" is very dubious on many levels and no offense I hope I don't have a misfortune to attend a conf you organize :)

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#162
post #18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think B1/B2 visa last of 10 years. I guess the 30 Days visa are J visa ?

I think 10 years visas are for some "friendly" countries, others get 3 year visas if no 221g procedure was involved.

It's based on a subjective risk assessment. For example, middle aged Indians are usually issued 10 year visas to visit their children in the US.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#164
post #20

Or, even better, don't accept invites from U.S. based conferences, and you will never have any unexpected issues. Best not to cross their borders at all.

The US is much better than the EU and Canada about granting visas for conferences.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever participated in a research community? You’re going to be at a severe disadvantage compared to peers in the US if you’re unable to promote your work to, and network with, the leaders in your field (the majority of whom are based in the global North). Also, many of the top publishing venues in CS are conferences, and it is not uncommon for them to require in-person presentations as a condition for accepta…

> Have you ever participated in a research community? Yes. A little bit. Though not in CS. > You’re going to be at a severe disadvantage compared to peers in the US > ... > if you want to have a scientific career What does having a scientific career mean to you? Are there universities outside of the global North? Do people hold positions in those universities? Is there any research work happening there? Can someone g…

As somebody from the "Global South", it's ridiculous to say that the average quality of work in top universities in, say, India, is on the same level as the average quality of work in top universities, in, say, the US.

This is not due to any difference in the inherent quality of the researchers, but due to (IMO) a lack of resources. This falls into two categories:

The first is the lack of a high-expertise peer/mentor community. Historically most research communities have centered in US/Europe. So even getting advice and mentorship is much more difficult, and the difficulty is exacerbated if you can't travel to conferences. Even if you manage to become established in your field, if you're not travelling to conferences and networking with other top researchers, you won't be privy to new research directions and questions, won't be able to take part in collaborations on interesting research projects, and won't have as productive a career as your colleagues in the global North. This also leads to a feedback loop (your research isn't exciting → you don't get to go to conferences to participate in research conversations → your research isn't exciting, and so on). In the end, the process of doing science is a social phenomenon, and you can't sequester yourself in your own country and expect to be a good researcher working on interesting problems.

The second category of resources is funding. The pool of money available for research is just much smaller in the global South, and makes certain kinds of research just impossible (think big distributed systems research, GPU-heavy ML research, etc.) So if you want to do that kind of research, you can't really stay in your home country.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#166
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I suggest you take a step back and think about how your comments come across so as not to unintentionally come off more harsh than you want. In fact what I was replying to was someone saying it was an event organizer's "duty" to write invitation letters for conference attendees for Visa purposes, which it is objectively not. The country is irrelevant, the economic development of the country is irrelevant.

Err international attendees cannot get visas without such invitation letters, so if you want international attendees then you should write such letters. You can't both want international attendance and then not do the legwork to support that.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#167

I'd like to point out a case that the author has politely left out: that some conference organizers truly believe that if you were a good researcher then you would have moved to North America and/or Europe. And viceversa. I know plenty of researchers from South America for whom COVID was a godsend as it allowed them to attend three virtual conferences for the price of one and where their virtual experience didn't mak…

> that some conference organizers truly believe that if you were a good researcher then you would have moved to North America and/or Europe. And viceversa.

If you moved to some country in Europe is is _harder_ for you to travel to US, and vice versa. First, embassies in Europe have fewer visa appointment slots in general than embassies in countries where visas are required for general population. These slots are generally reserved for EU citizens in need of long-term/immigration visas. Even more so for European embassies in US. Second, as you've already taken the immigration route once, you're seen as a potential immigrant with a risk of no return. Third, your documents are just not familiar to the embassy personnel. Like, in Berlin, in the batch of ten passports where nine of them are German and one Indian, embassy personnel will scrutiny one, maybe two of German ones and certainly the Indian one.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you arrive to another country's border you need to state the purpose of your visit to a border control officer. If you say "conference" - you may not be allowed in because your visa is for another purpose, if you say "tourism" you lie to a government officer, which may result in various penalties according to the local laws.

I have a question. How does "break local laws" work? I applied to a tourism Visa in say Netherlands or uk for 2 weeks. After 5 days, I attend a "conference" of say 2 hours or something. Is it like the man in the suit sends a call to the home ministry who sends a Hollywood style swat team or the American ice agents to drag you out of the border ?

More like someone processing your next visa application getting automatically collected data on your previous visits from all kinds of sources public and private and seeing that you lied about your visit the last time.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#169
post #151

I'd like to point out a case that the author has politely left out: that some conference organizers truly believe that if you were a good researcher then you would have moved to North America and/or Europe. And viceversa. I know plenty of researchers from South America for whom COVID was a godsend as it allowed them to attend three virtual conferences for the price of one and where their virtual experience didn't mak…

And I'd like to point out that even if I'm physically in, say Canada, I might still need a visa to go to Germany. Unless there's a clause somewhere that says people who have a visa for Canada can enter Germany visa-free — some countries actually do that. For example, UAE (the country where Dubai is) normally requires visa for Indian citizens, but if you're an Indian citizen with a valid US visa, then you're eligible…

Not the OP, but the comparison it's apple to oranges.

In some parts of South America getting a visa to USA goes to a queue that can take 262 days. From SA (from a country with a not so strong passport) to Germany since we're Schengen the visa does not apply, but with a work contract it's less than 30 days in some big cities.

The point that I want to make here is that the sad reality is that Canada has a way stronger passport and good will from several countries than South America, that's why the comparison is not applicable.

[1] - https://www.uol.com.br/nossa/noticias/agencia-estado/2023/08...

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#170
post #143
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I thought EU citizens no longer need a visa Overwhelming majority yes, exceptions are citizens of: Romania, Bulgaria and Cyprus.

What's different about those three countries?

Not sure about Bulgaria and Cyprus, but in Romania's case having a visa refusal rate of above 3%

From my circle of friends it seems like random chance, and because there is no reason given for the refusal one can only speculate. When I got my B-1/B-2 visa, my interview was very quick (I'd even dare to say closer to 1 minute). Whereas I have a couple of friends that applied for a travel visa and were rejected after being "interrogated" more heavily. When it comes to travel visas, I would assume they would mostly filter for potential illegal immigration, but all those I know that got rejected were pretty well "rooted" in the country.

There might just be the fact that getting an invitation letter from a company is considerably more important than receiving one from anyone else.

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