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Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

arunraghavan.net

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Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#101

Post by pandaman »

i_no_can_eat wrote: post #84
nirbheek wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very strange that this is your experience, because IME as an Indian who has to apply for Schengen visas 4-5 times a year it's actually easier to get a visa for tourism than to attend a conference or for business. You need to supply fewer documents for a tourist visa, there's lesser scrutiny, and in many countries you're more likely to get a longer-duration visa (6 months rather than exact duration) for tourism than f…

Very interesting to know, thanks. Let me then ask: if getting a tourist visa is simpler, is there any problem in asking for a tourist visa even if your intention is attending a conference?

When you arrive to another country's border you need to state the purpose of your visit to a border control officer. If you say "conference" - you may not be allowed in because your visa is for another purpose, if you say "tourism" you lie to a government officer, which may result in various penalties according to the local laws.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#102

Post by gruez »

LastWeekendWas wrote: post #76
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The four designated State Sponsors of Terrorism are Cuba, Out of curiosity what's the latest terrorist attack sponsored by the Cuban state?

Severely embarrassing the US government? Or maybe just providing free high quality heath care to all its citizens? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba ; The World Bank acknowledges that Cuba's life expectancy at birth exceeds that of the United States

You should at least do a search before making a snarky comment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Sponsors_of_Terrorism_(U...

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#103

Post by sofixa »

gruez wrote: post #102
LastWeekendWas wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Severely embarrassing the US government? Or maybe just providing free high quality heath care to all its citizens? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba ; The World Bank acknowledges that Cuba's life expectancy at birth exceeds that of the United States

You should at least do a search before making a snarky comment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Sponsors_of_Terrorism_(U...

> Cuba was added to the list on March 1, 1982, on the basis that it has a history of supporting revolutionary movements in Spanish-speaking countries and Africa

That's hilarious. It's after the CIA sponsored coups against democratically elected leftists, like infamously in Chile. So it's a problem when Cuba supports movements, but not when the US does it? Or was it just "fascism is better than anything even remotely to the left"?

Also, "when was the last time" being answered with the 1980s, when we're in 2023 is downright embarrassing.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#104

Post by xenophonf »

i_no_can_eat wrote: post #84
nirbheek wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very strange that this is your experience, because IME as an Indian who has to apply for Schengen visas 4-5 times a year it's actually easier to get a visa for tourism than to attend a conference or for business. You need to supply fewer documents for a tourist visa, there's lesser scrutiny, and in many countries you're more likely to get a longer-duration visa (6 months rather than exact duration) for tourism than f…

Very interesting to know, thanks. Let me then ask: if getting a tourist visa is simpler, is there any problem in asking for a tourist visa even if your intention is attending a conference?

> is there any problem in asking for a tourist visa even if your intention is attending a conference?

In the U.S.A., lying on a government form is illegal, https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001. I can't imagine other countries treating that differently.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#105

Post by threatofrain »

yellow_lead wrote: post #74
ekianjo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make them pay in advance and reimburse the fees if they show up. Problem fixed.

This creates a new bias against people who can't lend a conference $X,XXX for a flight and hotel.

Conferences are generally so expensive that early bird vs not is no longer the question at the forefront, but rather the sheer largeness of the number. Also early birds tend to save money on flights and conferences.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#106

Post by rob74 »

sampo wrote: post #8
darkwater wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding the US, as an European the ESTA is tied to the passport, so when it expires (or you lose it and have to renew it), you have to redo it. So yeah, usually it's ~10 years. EDIT: sorry for the misinformation, ESTA expires after 2 years OR when the passport expires [0] [0] https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-1126?language=en_US

Side note: EU is planning to retaliate, and just as US is requiring ESTA from EU citizens traveling to US, in 2024 EU will start to require a similar application caller ETIAS, from US citizens traveling to EU. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Travel_Information_an...

Not only has the US unilaterally introduced these requirements already 15 years ago, but there are still 3 EU countries (Bulgaria, Cyprus and Romania) that are not even in the Visa Waiver Program - so I think some "retaliation" is in order...

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#107

Post by bombcar »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #98
Semaphor wrote: post #68

It’s very easy to forget how annoying Visas can be, if you are from a privileged country. I’m a German married to a South African, but before that we were long-distance dating. Me visiting her was effortless. Fly there, stand in line, get my stamps, done. Her visiting Germany? A lot of paperwork and appointments in both countries and usually paying for a 36h document courier to get her all the documents in time becau…

> And that’s not even talking about them marriage itself as SA is not one of those countries where you can (ab)use easy Danish marriages What is this about? I'm not sure whatever phenomena you're referring to are well known outside of Germany.

Some countries don’t let you “change visa” without returning home.

So if you’re in Germany on a tourist or student visa, and decide to get married, you have to fly home and apply for a marriage visa or whatever it is.

Other countries let you basically “update the visa online” or at the embassy.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#108

Post by probably_wrong »

I'd like to point out a case that the author has politely left out: that some conference organizers truly believe that if you were a good researcher then you would have moved to North America and/or Europe. And viceversa.

I know plenty of researchers from South America for whom COVID was a godsend as it allowed them to attend three virtual conferences for the price of one and where their virtual experience didn't make them feel like second class citizens. Those same researchers are now getting visa appointments for the US scheduled months after the end of the conferences.

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#109

Post by dagw »

brightball wrote: post #90

I just finished running the Carolina Code Conference this weekend and I do want to comment on this part: > But if you’re in my position, you need at least 2-3 months between the first and the last step. If your attendance is conditional on speaking at the conference (for example, if your company will only sponsor you if you’re speaking), then you need a minimum of 2-3 months between when speakers are notified and the…

As an organizer you need your speakers confirmed 2-3 months out so that you can announce them

I don't think I've ever been to conference where all the speakers were announced more than a couple of day before the conference, and certainly way after last registration. Also I've never gone to a conference specifically because I wanted to see any of the speakers.

Do people choose which conferences to go to based on the main speakers?

Re: Conferences are inadvertently excluding many attendees from foreign countries

#110

Post by Ar-Curunir »

i_no_can_eat wrote: post #25

There is another side to this. Whenever I have organized conferences, I end up receiving lots of requests for invitation letters, typically from researchers in India, for Visa purposes. I absolutely understand this, and I have always done my best to accommodate these requests. But this is time-consuming, and it is very annoying when those researchers (who are sometimes also scheduled to speak) never show up, and neve…

If they have paid to register for your conference, it’s your duty to write those letters.

I doubt people having speaking slots at the conference will just skip out to go vacation. It’s not like they can’t vacation after the talk. More likely that they just didn’t get the visa because European visa processes, while better than US ones, are just slow.

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