Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

old.reddit.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 101 posts

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#81

Post by Klonoar »

toyg wrote: post #73
pjmlp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to break it to you, without Apple, Google would have won already. Doesn't matter how good or evil they happen to be. No one cares about Firefox, apparently not even the large majority of HN folks.

Even if the enemy of my enemy is my friend, it doesn't need to be my best friend. Apple is as bad for the web as Google. They refuse to allow other engines on their mobile, money-making OS.

You have completely missed the point they’re making to you: that refusal, however bad, is the only reason Chrome is not overwhelmingly dominant.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#82

Post by paulryanrogers »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #80
paulryanrogers wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Websites should be built based on widely accepted standards, not quirks or monoculture 'standards'. When there were legally enforced browser ballots they had to ... and they did.

When I say “web standards”, I mean official W3C standards, and I think we should be actively hostile to corporate attempts to take over that process. But I disagree that we shouldn’t also try to accommodate quirks. That’s why we have `Array.flat` instead of `Array.flatten` — the standards body decided to come up with a slightly atypical name for the feature rather than breaking a bunch of websites.[1] Our collective…

> we should be actively hostile to corporate attempts to take over that process.

Hard agree. I've become convinced their power to ignore, replace, and EEE standards requires legal intervention. So far it seems only randomized browser ballots can effect any meaningful change. Otherwise websites will just build for the dominant browser regardless of any agreements among them.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#83

Post by paulryanrogers »

JonathanBeuys wrote: post #78
paulryanrogers wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may need to combine them like "Firefox --no-remote -P myotherprofile

I don't have (nor want) another profile. I just want Firefox to launch a new window. No matter if there already are Firefox windows active or not. Chromium has no problem doing so. So that is the reason I use Chromium and not Firefox.

That does seem to be a quirk of Firefox profiles. You could workaround with a secondary profile that uses Firefox Sync to make them nearly equivalent.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#84

Post by toyg »

Klonoar wrote: post #81
toyg wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the enemy of my enemy is my friend, it doesn't need to be my best friend. Apple is as bad for the web as Google. They refuse to allow other engines on their mobile, money-making OS.

You have completely missed the point they’re making to you: that refusal, however bad, is the only reason Chrome is not overwhelmingly dominant.

I know that, but this is often spun as a positive for Apple and it's not: it's an accidental side-effect of their own anti-competitive stance. If anything, it works as a fig leaf to Google's monopoly. Apple should stop their stupid policy, open their platform, and instead make it plain to antitrust authorities that Google needs reigning in.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#85

Post by Izkata »

abacadaba wrote: post #17

RIP Firebug. Didn't keep a journal to remember the exact features or reasons but I switched after Firebug went away. Also performance mostly. My site is slow, running in debug mode is slow, and using dev tools is slow. Combine all 3 and it makes a difference. Prob some little features to that are in different places. Firefox when I need to edit and resend a request though.

There was a particular way firebug put web requests (ajax) into the console tab that I really liked, that helped with seeing the order things occurred that I remember missing when it went away.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#86

Post by Izkata »

JonathanBeuys wrote: post #64
johnchristopher wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I see now. Try: Try sudo -i -u $user firefox or sudo -E -u $user firefox ?

Both don't work. Why don't you try before you post?

It works if you use -E both when leaving the user environment and when reentering it. There's something in the environment variables that needs to be set for the new firefox instance to communicate with the old one to pass along the new window command, and using -E both times carries it along.

Also ssh is somehow able to load this from somewhere without carrying it along. You can "ssh desktopuser@localhost" to restore it, though this does mean you need to set "DISPLAY=:0" manually.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#87

Post by pjmlp »

tambourine_man wrote: post #71
pjmlp wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both aren't supported by FF, and I can remember of other examples, that for all practical purposes make Chrome the new IE.

IE had 95% market share at some point and was closed source. Chrome is open source and on mobile in the US is close to 50%. There are similarities, but it’s far from the same situation.

Foolish dreamers anyone that thinks Chrome being open source makes a difference in Google's Web domination masterplan.

US is one country among 195, and the other 50%, which are mostly from Safari, are one of the reasons why the Web isn't yet fully assimilated as ChromeOS.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#88

Post by TheMode »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #80
paulryanrogers wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Websites should be built based on widely accepted standards, not quirks or monoculture 'standards'. When there were legally enforced browser ballots they had to ... and they did.

When I say “web standards”, I mean official W3C standards, and I think we should be actively hostile to corporate attempts to take over that process. But I disagree that we shouldn’t also try to accommodate quirks. That’s why we have `Array.flat` instead of `Array.flatten` — the standards body decided to come up with a slightly atypical name for the feature rather than breaking a bunch of websites.[1] Our collective…

> Our collective history is too valuable for us to be breaking stuff just to make engineers’ lives easier.

I'd argue that software standards make it harder for everyone to write a "history". How many people simply gave up on their own websites and outsourced their work to an entity they do not control the actions of?

How much of that fancy web standard is about optional visual? What are we really getting from it? Would you consider a new API for drawing rectangles "progress"?

Your `Array.flat` example may make sense, but only because we are way too deep to even consider alternatives. We have mostly no idea how these standards will evolve and decided to keep on putting band aids to remain afloat.

The best way to keep information accessible is to make it understandable by a human without mandatory automation. Don't you find it horrible that all the information websites can provide you is actually dependent on a thousands pages long spec? Is it really the only solution you can think of?

The resiliency of the web is mostly equivalent to papyrus, if not worse.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#89

Post by tambourine_man »

pjmlp wrote: post #87
tambourine_man wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IE had 95% market share at some point and was closed source. Chrome is open source and on mobile in the US is close to 50%. There are similarities, but it’s far from the same situation.

Foolish dreamers anyone that thinks Chrome being open source makes a difference in Google's Web domination masterplan. US is one country among 195, and the other 50%, which are mostly from Safari, are one of the reasons why the Web isn't yet fully assimilated as ChromeOS.

It’s foolish to think it doesn’t. Blink was a fork of WebKit. There’s nothing stopping someone from forking it either. Certainly a lot easier than reverse engineering IE bug for bug.

The US is the largest economy in the planet and home to most tech companies and all browser engine makers. Calling it “one country among 195” is dodging the issue.

That’s not to say that Google isn’t on a quest to conquer the Web and that Chrome isn’t incredibly popular. It’s just that comparing it to IE is a bridge too far.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#90

Post by jakelazaroff »

TheMode wrote: post #88
jakelazaroff wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I say “web standards”, I mean official W3C standards, and I think we should be actively hostile to corporate attempts to take over that process. But I disagree that we shouldn’t also try to accommodate quirks. That’s why we have `Array.flat` instead of `Array.flatten` — the standards body decided to come up with a slightly atypical name for the feature rather than breaking a bunch of websites.[1] Our collective…

> Our collective history is too valuable for us to be breaking stuff just to make engineers’ lives easier. I'd argue that software standards make it harder for everyone to write a "history". How many people simply gave up on their own websites and outsourced their work to an entity they do not control the actions of? How much of that fancy web standard is about optional visual? What are we really getting from it? Wou…

What solution can you think of that doesn’t involve breaking any existing websites?

Look, I don’t like how complex web browsers are any more than you do. But it’s the situation we’re in today.

Post reply on HN