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Executive Function Theft

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Re: Executive Function Theft

#191

Post by [deleted] »

adolph wrote: post #189
maxbond wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> True, I can see how “weighty evidence” overstated the weak case presented by the author. You're gloating and high fiving yourself for insulting someone on the internet, in the same breath you're asserting that person isn't well adjusted and needs to go to therapy. I'm not impressed. > Not all tasks can be done with equal efficiency by different people, thus route tasks to where they are most efficiently performed.…

> You're gloating and high fiving yourself for insulting someone on the internet, in the same breath you're asserting that person isn't well adjusted and needs to go to therapy. I'm not impressed. I have insulted no person or thing. This statement appears to be mind-reading itself a straw man. Don’t lie. I did not write that anyone “needs to go to therapy.” If you care to reply, please address the fact that you lied.…

[deleted]

Re: Executive Function Theft

#192

Post by maxbond »

adolph wrote: post #189
maxbond wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> True, I can see how “weighty evidence” overstated the weak case presented by the author. You're gloating and high fiving yourself for insulting someone on the internet, in the same breath you're asserting that person isn't well adjusted and needs to go to therapy. I'm not impressed. > Not all tasks can be done with equal efficiency by different people, thus route tasks to where they are most efficiently performed.…

> You're gloating and high fiving yourself for insulting someone on the internet, in the same breath you're asserting that person isn't well adjusted and needs to go to therapy. I'm not impressed. I have insulted no person or thing. This statement appears to be mind-reading itself a straw man. Don’t lie. I did not write that anyone “needs to go to therapy.” If you care to reply, please address the fact that you lied.…

> If you care to reply, please address the fact that you lied.

Bullshit. You said they were engaging in the inverse of therapy. You leveled various insults at the author.

> No

It was a rhetorical question. So, "yes," I guess.

> If you disagree that the EFT author’s mindset towards work isn’t that of reverse CBT, I look forward to rethinking it.

You don't need me for that. (And yes, I disagree.)

Re: Executive Function Theft

#194

Post by mst »

jkhdigital wrote: post #140
Viliam1234 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I hear a correlation expressed as causation, I try to turn it around to check whether it makes more sense that way. "If you believe that ego depletion is real, you experience it." -- wow, sounds spooky, fascinating if true "If you experience ego depletion, you believe that it is real." -- yes thank you, Captain Obvious To me it seems like different people have different capacity for making decisions (that's kind…

I think the questionable assumption is that people have some sort of fixed, intrinsic capacity for decision-making that is somehow distinct from other stable personality traits.

I think if you treat the numbers as a deliberate oversimplification for expository purposes the underlying point still makes sense.

Similarly, spoon theory can still be a helpful frame of reference even though "spoons per day" is not in reality a fixed or discrete quantity.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#195

Post by astrange »

maxerickson wrote: post #146
astrange wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FSAs are pretty manageable if you only put $200ish in there. Mine somehow gets auto deducted for vision costs, so it manages to get used. HSAs are a very good tax dodge retirement account, so you should figure them out. Except in California they're supposed to be taxed. Except… HSA providers don't give you the forms you'd need to report HSA investment gains, so it is literally impossible to report them.

But then you are doing the management of it for $50.

I'm not doing anything but checking a box during open enrollment once a year.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#196

Post by thomastjeffery »

IdAugmentation wrote: post #98

Two things: The main assumption in this article is that "ego depletion" is real. It may not be, see Wikipedia [1]. Psychology is in a big replication crisis, and the ego depletion stuff is all tangled up in it. There's a real possibility that this "theft" only exists by virtue of you believing in it. I'm aware there's a lot of hedging to be done here (experiences of people with ADHD, etc.). I don't like calling this…

I think a more accurate word might be "enslavement".

A person, a group of people, or an explicit social system, has decided to override my goals without replacing my behavior. Without fighting them directly, I am left to execute behaviors that meet their goals. The very context of my executive functioning has been replaced with arbitrary constraints.

Who determines the goals of "everybody"? No one can!

Re: Executive Function Theft

#197

Post by projectileboy »

satisfice wrote: post #67
projectileboy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, aside from whether or note the tone of the piece is or is not justifiable, I think your comment misses the point, which is that there is injustice in people (or a system) who unfairly shunt work off to you that they should rightly own. The US health industrial complex is indeed a prime example.

It's NOT injustice. That is entirely made up by the author. What agreement or law has been broken?

That’s a fair point. I would say the agreement that has been broken is an implicit social contract (in the sense of Rousseau) that people should share the burdens of society to make society function, and that individuals should do the work that would most appropriately be their responsibility.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#198

Post by thomastjeffery »

t-writescode wrote: post #14
quickthrower2 wrote: post #9

The fallacy here is assuming planning something is draining or bad for you. It more has to do with how much you enjoy the thing. I think couples have arguments about the thing neither of them wants to do. But if one enjoys planning the holiday for example they will just do it and it wont feel like EFT. I definitely get bank EFT (pun not intended), I deal with this by having recurring todos with all the links and stuf…

> The fallacy here is assuming planning something is draining or bad for you. Executive Function is a term commonly thrown around in the autistic and ADHD spaces. When read in that context, it makes a *lot* more sense. From what I hear, neurotypical people have a much higher tolerance for bullshit work and wasteful process. I wouldn't know what that feels like. Beyond 1 or 2 wasted steps and I get mad that someone ha…

I don't get upset: I get stuck. Then I get upset; or I just dissociate, depending on how depressed I am at that moment.

If a task expects too much executive functioning from my ADHD brain, I literally cannot complete the task.

Of course, that sounds a lot more binary than it is: my executive functioning is a product of complex neurochemical interactions. The right balance of medication might give me enough stimulation to do the thing. Stress and adrenaline might give me enough stimulation to do the thing. I might be able to get started, but get stuck halfway through. All I can say for certain (predictably) is that my brain naturally lives below that stimulation threshold.

Years of living without medication (I was diagnosed in my late 20s) left my brain to create habits that try (and fail) to compensate. The main habit I have recognized is an obsession with objectivity: if I could just think about the problem enough to factor out the work, then I wouldn't need to do anything! The result is a collection of knowledge and understanding that isn't tied to experience or achievement. I'm still trying to get the hang of action: moving toward a goal.

Most people can't even imagine what I'm going through. For them, inconvenience is just something they live through. For me, inconvenience is the walls of an endless maze. I would very much like to leave.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#199

Post by thomastjeffery »

jacknews wrote: post #2

It's not really theft though, since the 'thief' doesn't gain the thing being 'stolen'. It's only the 'deny use' half of 'theft', ie it's more like DoS.

I have ADHD, which should really be titled something like "Executive Functioning Disorder". That's the main symptom: not having enough executive function ability.

So what happens when my executive functioning is stolen? Debt. I am eternally indebted to any task that demanded more executive functioning than I could provide. And society demands I pay up one way or another: that's the ADHD tax. Couldn't finish homework? Gotta stay after school. Couldn't work on the company project before its deadline? Get fired. Couldn't cold-call 2 dozen mental health clinics to find an opening that works with my insurance? No meds or therapy for me.

Every social system that interacts with me is designed with a baseline expectation of executive functioning: I experience that as a DDoS attack.

I think both terms are correct, and you are welcome to use whichever best fits the context you are using it in.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#200

Post by adolph »

maxbond wrote: post #192
adolph wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're gloating and high fiving yourself for insulting someone on the internet, in the same breath you're asserting that person isn't well adjusted and needs to go to therapy. I'm not impressed. I have insulted no person or thing. This statement appears to be mind-reading itself a straw man. Don’t lie. I did not write that anyone “needs to go to therapy.” If you care to reply, please address the fact that you lied.…

> If you care to reply, please address the fact that you lied. Bullshit. You said they were engaging in the inverse of therapy. You leveled various insults at the author. > No It was a rhetorical question. So, "yes," I guess. > If you disagree that the EFT author’s mindset towards work isn’t that of reverse CBT, I look forward to rethinking it. You don't need me for that. (And yes, I disagree.)

Stop lying about what people write. It’s especially unconvincing when what you are writing about is directly above your lie. I did not write that “they were engaging in the inverse of therapy.” I wrote “Irony aside, the essay could be categorized as reverse-CBT. Read more about Lukianoff’s idea at the link below:. . .” Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a particular technique proven to help people. Lukianoff’s idea of reverse CBT is that people engaged in it are performing many of the things that CBT works against (without speaking to that as being part of the care prescribed by a healthcare provider).

Again, like your lies about what is written, you lie about “various insults at the author.” It’s plain to see that there is no insult in what was written, especially since you can’t be bothered to quote anything.

You can lie, you can disagree while covering your ears, hopefully one day you can come to grips with the world as it is even if today is not that day.

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