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Executive Function Theft

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Re: Executive Function Theft

#131

Post by veave »

jimmaswell wrote: post #68
Aeglaecia wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

personally love it when family asks me for help with computers as its piss easy work that does them a huge favor, you and the author share a perspective that i dont

You liked being called out of your room ten times a day for some bullshit you've already explained a million times? Being asked to type something because you type faster? Thief is the perfect word. Instead of using their own brains they stole mine. I don't know how someone does this and isn't ashamed of themselves. I'm so glad I don't have to live the life of a helper monkey for the terminally lazy anymore. Magically…

This is way too common with some people as they get older. They refuse to learn how to use a computer, a phone, or they even refuse to read utility bills or bank statements and ask others to summarise them for them. On the other hand they don't have a problem learning what all the buttons do in their new fancy car.

I say fuck that.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#132

Post by jtc331 »

> The goal, in the name of the company bottom dollar, is to make it as inconvenient as possible for me to use an employer offered benefit. A truly mundane and recurrent example, unfortunately, as I try to navigate U.S. health insurance.

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence [and misaligned incentives].

Designing a good experience and flow for a piece of software is hard. You have to work for it not to be bad rather than work to make it bad.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#133

Post by IdAugmentation »

Viliam1234 wrote: post #121
IdAugmentation wrote: post #98

Two things: The main assumption in this article is that "ego depletion" is real. It may not be, see Wikipedia [1]. Psychology is in a big replication crisis, and the ego depletion stuff is all tangled up in it. There's a real possibility that this "theft" only exists by virtue of you believing in it. I'm aware there's a lot of hedging to be done here (experiences of people with ADHD, etc.). I don't like calling this…

When I hear a correlation expressed as causation, I try to turn it around to check whether it makes more sense that way. "If you believe that ego depletion is real, you experience it." -- wow, sounds spooky, fascinating if true "If you experience ego depletion, you believe that it is real." -- yes thank you, Captain Obvious To me it seems like different people have different capacity for making decisions (that's kind…

Fair point, but I don't think it's quite clear what I'm getting at. I think most people sometimes have the sensation that they want to turn off their brain and just do nothing.

The picture ego depletion paints is that a) this is caused by making decisions and b) there is nothing to be done about it. I don't think either of those is true. Some decisions might be stressful and they could certainly contribute, but choosing what's for dinner is not in that category. And even if I'm tired and just chilling with some video games, I might be making decisions around builds, where to go next, etc.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#134

Post by adaml_623 »

LostLetterbox2 wrote: post #110

I find it funny that the author suggests that husbands have more time for hobbies and friends; I don't know about hobbies but male friendship has been in decline for a long time now... The EFT framing is a good model but the gendered arguments need much more nuance than is offered in this piece. I also wonder how much the higher standards plays a part in this kind of thing. If person A believes tasks like vacuuming n…

The full quote I think you should reference is. "he can devote this time to hobbies, relaxation, exercise, hanging out with friends, sleep, work and/or continued education."

You've addressed one item out of seven indicating that you're not aware of the context or nuance involved in gender inequality in the home.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#135

Post by ZephyrBlu »

I understand the idea, but I'm somewhat confused by the way it's framed.

Negotiating what you spend your executive function on is part of navigating reality. People can exercise agency here.

You can say "no" to most of these tasks and there will be zero effect. Most of the time people don't actually care that much about these tasks getting done, they're just nice-to-haves.

I also disagree with the framing of it in the workplace and relationships.

"EFT" is literally the purpose of a job. You take on the burden of your role so someone else doesn't have to.

If a couple is happy with the division of labour, why does it matter who does more "EFT" tasks?

Gendered or other differences in "EFT" tasks seem like a completely different problem. That is related to your personal negotiation of the tasks rather than an inherent problem with them.

Personally I try to ruthlessly eliminate these tasks because I have poor executive function and don't want more things to deal with, but most people don't seem to be interested in doing that.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#136

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

I suspect, when the hype subsides, we'll figure out that AI is pretty good at the minutiae kind of thing.

In the aggregate, technology tends to empower higher-functioning work, by taking over the lower-functioning work.

I started off by programming Machine Code. Languages, compilers, and engineering discipline have allowed me to do a whole world more, than if I was still writing out hex codes, on a pad of paper.

But, when it all boils down, Machine Code is the atomic level (or maybe FET junctions).

Re: Executive Function Theft

#137

Post by tleilaxu »

yu3zhou4 wrote: post #86
canvascritic wrote: post #25

Oof, this hits close to home. during my tenure as a principal engineer at a certain startup, well known and loved in these parts. Anyway I was new to engineering leadership and this big initiative came down from above to migrate to k8s. team was excited to be done with the myriad adhoc scripts and duct tape infra. But it turned out the team was very junior, and I was green as a leader and manager. every day brought a…

Would be great to read a longer piece about your experience. Do you have a blog? If not, maybe you consider one?

I concur!

This describes my situation - and I suspect that of many others here. It’d be great to have some insight into how you navigated all this.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#138

Post by jkhdigital »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #49
KRAKRISMOTT wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But getting rid of shallow work is the entire reason why people get executive assistants.

I don't either Cal or the author would have a problem with exec assistants - they're being paid for that. Where it can be a problem is when there are "attentive" people on a team and "inattentive" people who are ostensibly equals. Team members with higher conscientiousness tend to get lumped with an outsized share of undesirable, low impact busywork because others won't do it. This dynamic can cause problems in all s…

Exactly. Conscientiousness is a personality trait and those who are lucky enough (yes it is highly correlated with positive life outcomes) to have it in abundance would do well to calibrate their expectations of others accordingly.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#139

Post by jkhdigital »

jancsika wrote: post #71
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> neglect them until they become a larger problem, since the alternative is taking them on by oneself and growing increasingly resentful that your coworkers don’t prioritize [stuff] Tangentially, this is a common problem in relationships. "You never do the dishes", "you never do the laundry"... My headcanon for these mismatches is that people have different thresholds of activation. In a relationship, it's useful to…

Translation here may help: > "You never do the dishes" means: You ignore how much more difficult it is to get rid of those little pantry flies, roaches, and/or ants once they find a food/crumb source vs. consistently blocking the impetus for that class of problem to manifest itself. (Or, depending on your locale, perhaps just minimizing that problem as much as possible.) Moreover, your philosophy of free agency doesn…

My childhood household had a pattern where the dishes would be done within an hour or two of eating dinner, sometimes a bit later, but of course always before everyone goes to bed.

My wife sometimes does most of the dishes before she even starts eating. If I followed the customs of the home I grew up in, my wife would end up doing the dishes every single meal before I even get to the sink. Obviously I have learned to adapt to the situation, but my point is that it’s a bit unfair to characterize every mismatch in expectations as evidence of abject filth and slobbery on the part of the husband.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#140

Post by jkhdigital »

Viliam1234 wrote: post #121
IdAugmentation wrote: post #98

Two things: The main assumption in this article is that "ego depletion" is real. It may not be, see Wikipedia [1]. Psychology is in a big replication crisis, and the ego depletion stuff is all tangled up in it. There's a real possibility that this "theft" only exists by virtue of you believing in it. I'm aware there's a lot of hedging to be done here (experiences of people with ADHD, etc.). I don't like calling this…

When I hear a correlation expressed as causation, I try to turn it around to check whether it makes more sense that way. "If you believe that ego depletion is real, you experience it." -- wow, sounds spooky, fascinating if true "If you experience ego depletion, you believe that it is real." -- yes thank you, Captain Obvious To me it seems like different people have different capacity for making decisions (that's kind…

I think the questionable assumption is that people have some sort of fixed, intrinsic capacity for decision-making that is somehow distinct from other stable personality traits.
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