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Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

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Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#61

Post by paulryanrogers »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #27
TheMode wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need less API/standard, not more. To have more competition in web devtools, we need to simplify the web standard so more browser can appear instead of forcing some new fancy API on our almost monopoly.

There’s no way to simplify web standards without breaking existing websites.

Websites should be built based on widely accepted standards, not quirks or monoculture 'standards'.

When there were legally enforced browser ballots they had to ... and they did.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#62

Post by oefrha »

zogrodea wrote: post #50
oefrha wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developing in Chrome doesn’t mean the end result doesn’t work in Firefox. Web standards are there for a reason. I develop in Chrome (by develop I mean the full interactive development cycle) but also check in Firefox and Safari once in a while. This post is explicitly about why people use Chrome’s devtools, so you’re just attacking a strawman.

Would you mind spelling the difference a bit more clearly? The comment chain has another comment that the browsers developers actually develop for a specific browser (usually Chrome because larger userbase), and this choice developers make influences which browsers users like to use because websites supposedly work better on that browser. So there seems to be variation in implementing the standards you refer to. I do…

caniuse and MDN compat data is really good these days, so you usually don't even need to crack open Firefox to be able to decide whether a JS API or a CSS feature is portable. For instance, in the Mega case, I assume they use the FileSystem API (since they have to download a large encrypted blob to a staging area first), and it's very easy to check availability of that API on all major browsers. As long as you don't chase the latest standards or WICG proposals, your code is likely going to work across all major browsers.[1] As I said in another comment, I occasionally check whether my sites work in Firefox and Safari, and they're just fine almost all of the time.

It seems to me that some diehard Firefox fans assume that just because some sites don't work on Firefox, all developers have to dedicate special attention to Firefox or their sites will be broken. That's very far from truth.

[1] More care is needed for mobile Safari, which often imposes additional non-obvious constraints, but that's a separate topic.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#63

Post by JonathanBeuys »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #60
JonathanBeuys wrote: post #6

For some reason, new Firefox windows can only be launched from the same environment from which the first window has been started. Even the same user who started FF cannot launch a new window from a new shell. That constantly interferes with my workflow. Example: Say firefox has been started from the Destop already and now I want to start a new Firefox window from a root terminal: su desktopuser firefox It does not wo…

You may need --no-remote and/or -P

--no-remote seems to have no effect

-P asks me to select a profile. That's not what I want. I simply want a new Firefox window.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#64

Post by JonathanBeuys »

johnchristopher wrote: post #53
JonathanBeuys wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want "two instances". I just want to trigger Firefox to open a new window. Just like it does when I press CTRL+n.

Ah, I see now. Try: Try sudo -i -u $user firefox or sudo -E -u $user firefox ?

Both don't work. Why don't you try before you post?

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#65

Post by ysavir »

Lapha wrote: post #30
JonathanBeuys wrote: post #6

For some reason, new Firefox windows can only be launched from the same environment from which the first window has been started. Even the same user who started FF cannot launch a new window from a new shell. That constantly interferes with my workflow. Example: Say firefox has been started from the Destop already and now I want to start a new Firefox window from a root terminal: su desktopuser firefox It does not wo…

I don't mean this as a dig, but I am curious to know what your use case is for launching new browser windows from different environments is. Something along the lines of remote debugging?

I'm not the GP, but for me it was an issue while wanting FF open for regular use and debugging, and another to run for automated feature tests.

It's been a few years since I've tried, so I might be forgetting the exact circumstance, but there was some issue like that.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#66

Post by rascul »

JonathanBeuys wrote: post #47
rascul wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does it for me: firefox --new-window google.com

No, that does not work from a different environment. You probably inherited the environment from the process that started FF. How did you try to do it from a new environment?

No it's from a new environment. I had to set DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS and DISPLAY and also allow it with xhost then it worked fine. I don't know how to do that with wayland though.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#67

Post by zogrodea »

oefrha wrote: post #62
zogrodea wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind spelling the difference a bit more clearly? The comment chain has another comment that the browsers developers actually develop for a specific browser (usually Chrome because larger userbase), and this choice developers make influences which browsers users like to use because websites supposedly work better on that browser. So there seems to be variation in implementing the standards you refer to. I do…

caniuse and MDN compat data is really good these days, so you usually don't even need to crack open Firefox to be able to decide whether a JS API or a CSS feature is portable. For instance, in the Mega case, I assume they use the FileSystem API (since they have to download a large encrypted blob to a staging area first), and it's very easy to check availability of that API on all major browsers. As long as you don't…

Thank you for the thorough answer! Learned something new today.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#68

Post by TheMode »

amelius wrote: post #59
TheMode wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need less API/standard, not more. To have more competition in web devtools, we need to simplify the web standard so more browser can appear instead of forcing some new fancy API on our almost monopoly.

I don't see how that makes sense. Writing an API is less work than writing the devtools (which needs some kind of API anyway internally). So without a universal API, any serious new browser would take more effort to build.

Designing an API is a ton of work, especially if you care about backward compatibility (otherwise you may as well use that internal API). And at some point will be deprecated for removal.

Without a standardized way of writing devtools - assuming the web standard is overall simplified - you can expose a more specialized API without the baggage associated with standards, break it every so often, and make it as easy as possible for developers (potentially even users) to port other devtools to it.

I believe that instead of finding the "universal API", we should embrace the fact that there will be 15+ of them, and therefore simplify the porting process.

Re: Why do people seem to prefer Chrome's devtools over Firefox's?

#70

Post by johnchristopher »

JonathanBeuys wrote: post #64
johnchristopher wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I see now. Try: Try sudo -i -u $user firefox or sudo -E -u $user firefox ?

Both don't work. Why don't you try before you post?

I am working from memory, on my smartphone in public transit in a heatwave.

I'd sacrifice some karma but I am hesitant so go see yourself out and off to https://stackoverflow.com instead.

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