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Executive Function Theft

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Re: Executive Function Theft

#111

Post by ehnto »

rexpop wrote: post #39
ehnto wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are both on the wrong track. The claim is that, instead of you mowing your lawn, you get someone else to do it. What you gain is time, and reduced cognitive load. It's kind of a childish thing to say about your manager since that is just how the cookie crumbles, but still a real exchange. Managers delegate certain tasks so they have time to focus on other tasks. Some managers delegate almost everything an…

What you gain is a lawn, mowed.

Sure. Relevant to this discussion though, you also don't lose the time it takes to mow it yourself, and are now able to focus on other tasks. We aren't talking about the economics of the situation, it's about the impact of meanial tasks on time and mental capacity.

Perhaps a better example is when a manager delegates tasks, which is what the article is ultimately complaining about. No money changes hands. The manager gains time and room for focus on other tasks, by delegating menial focus sapping tasks to other people. I think the article is a bit silly, because that is the point of the separation of those roles, but they aren't ultimately wront about what is happening.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#112

Post by LostLetterbox2 »

canvascritic wrote: post #25

Oof, this hits close to home. during my tenure as a principal engineer at a certain startup, well known and loved in these parts. Anyway I was new to engineering leadership and this big initiative came down from above to migrate to k8s. team was excited to be done with the myriad adhoc scripts and duct tape infra. But it turned out the team was very junior, and I was green as a leader and manager. every day brought a…

I still think mentorship is one of the most impactful things someone can do; passing on experience can improve the velocity of someone else's learning and strengthen their contribution no matter where they land in industry.

The important thing is to mentor those who show willingness to pay this investment forward. I've never been in a situation with a completely green team but hopefully when I do I can navigate the role of empowering others to navigate some of that mentoring challenge.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#113

Post by LostLetterbox2 »

jancsika wrote: post #71
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> neglect them until they become a larger problem, since the alternative is taking them on by oneself and growing increasingly resentful that your coworkers don’t prioritize [stuff] Tangentially, this is a common problem in relationships. "You never do the dishes", "you never do the laundry"... My headcanon for these mismatches is that people have different thresholds of activation. In a relationship, it's useful to…

Translation here may help: > "You never do the dishes" means: You ignore how much more difficult it is to get rid of those little pantry flies, roaches, and/or ants once they find a food/crumb source vs. consistently blocking the impetus for that class of problem to manifest itself. (Or, depending on your locale, perhaps just minimizing that problem as much as possible.) Moreover, your philosophy of free agency doesn…

Second paragraph is restating that different people have different standards. Different people have different triggers for disgust and those that have the most sensitive might have to choose between an emotional tax or executive function theft if an agreement can't be reached.

I have no idea about pleasant odours but can see how not having ones standards respect could be a libido killer; just part of the complexities of a relationship/cohabitation.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#114

Post by at_a_remove »

LostLetterbox2 wrote: post #110

I find it funny that the author suggests that husbands have more time for hobbies and friends; I don't know about hobbies but male friendship has been in decline for a long time now... The EFT framing is a good model but the gendered arguments need much more nuance than is offered in this piece. I also wonder how much the higher standards plays a part in this kind of thing. If person A believes tasks like vacuuming n…

If I really cared I would somehow be able to wave my magic wand and implement sick leave entitlements and other demands? No. Reality doesn't work like that.

A card is far more in the realm of possible things I can do. Caring does not confer capability.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#116

Post by Aeglaecia »

maxbond wrote: post #70
Aeglaecia wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

personally love it when family asks me for help with computers as its piss easy work that does them a huge favor, you and the author share a perspective that i dont

In the same way that your family has a different capacity for using the computer, other people have a different capacity to field interruptions or to spare their attention. Something that may be pleasant for you might be really taxing for someone else. That doesn't invalidate either experience. In disability advocacy this is sometimes called spoon theory. This is somewhat offtopic but one of my favorite sci-fi short…

full support to sharing sf short stories !!

Re: Executive Function Theft

#117

Post by Aeglaecia »

maxbond wrote: post #76
jimmaswell wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally had no shortage of ability to do the thing and continue working on my own stuff all day at that age; what made me angry was feeling that my time was needlessly wasted by people who were merely lazy and could figure these very simple things out on their own if they actually tried instead of using me as an escape hatch at the first inkling of uncertainty.

Fair enough, sorry if I was presumptive.

hahahaha

Re: Executive Function Theft

#118

Post by aatd86 »

aatd86 wrote: post #85
jimmaswell wrote: post #59

My parents did this to me the whole time I lived with them whenever they had to do something involving the computer. It was exhausting and infuriating. "It's so easy for you and so hard for me" - it wouldn't be hard if you'd start trying and stop making yourself helpless.

This so much ;D I mean I alwaysbtellnthelnto prepare, there will be a day I won't be here to write those emails anymore. Anyway... It's also the least one can do when you're with them but that's not necessarily practical.

*always tell them

Re: Executive Function Theft

#119

Post by Asooka »

IdAugmentation wrote: post #98

Two things: The main assumption in this article is that "ego depletion" is real. It may not be, see Wikipedia [1]. Psychology is in a big replication crisis, and the ego depletion stuff is all tangled up in it. There's a real possibility that this "theft" only exists by virtue of you believing in it. I'm aware there's a lot of hedging to be done here (experiences of people with ADHD, etc.). I don't like calling this…

I am seeing a variation of this play out slowly at work, which I definitely would call theft. For context, we have a bonus structure in place that awards bonuses for performance. The actual measurement of work done is actually pretty alright, as it's left to human judgement and not just numbers. However, it creates a severe moral hazard - I am incentivised to spend as little time as possible on each task, so that I can finish more tasks and appear more productive at the end of the quarter.

I often run into code where it seems the author left a lot of tech debt for the sake of fixing the one task they were given. We have processes in place that are meant to prevent bad code from getting into master, and they do work - you can't just sneak absolute garbage past code review, but still everyone involved is incentivised to only let through the minimum acceptable version of the code that will hold together until bonuses are calculated next quarter. The part where this becomes theft is when next quarter your mess impedes my progress, my velocity goes down, which means my bonus goes down, which means you have literally stolen money from me.

I often think about this when interacting with commercial software that has bugs and rough edges. Am I in pain right now because somebody maximised their performance bonus three years ago? Are these issues the results not of incompetence, but of simple min-maxing? At the end, we all reap what we sow, and I can but hope that my mortgage gets paid before the reaper comes to harvest.

Re: Executive Function Theft

#120

Post by colordrops »

at_a_remove wrote: post #114
LostLetterbox2 wrote: post #110

I find it funny that the author suggests that husbands have more time for hobbies and friends; I don't know about hobbies but male friendship has been in decline for a long time now... The EFT framing is a good model but the gendered arguments need much more nuance than is offered in this piece. I also wonder how much the higher standards plays a part in this kind of thing. If person A believes tasks like vacuuming n…

If I really cared I would somehow be able to wave my magic wand and implement sick leave entitlements and other demands? No. Reality doesn't work like that. A card is far more in the realm of possible things I can do. Caring does not confer capability.

If I don't subscribe to the whole get well soon culture with cards and balloons, I'm not thieving someone else's executive function because I never organize the events.
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