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Air Force funds ‘blended wing body’ design for long-range, fuel-efficient flight

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21–30 of 88 posts

Re: Air Force funds ‘blended wing body’ design for long-range, fuel-efficient flight

#21
post #18

Nice. NASA and Airbus have both flown blended-wing unmanned test aircraft. Not sure what role this serves for the USAF. It's a transport. Wider loads? Stealth? The US has had total air superiority in every conflict since the Korean War. That's over. The Ukraine war makes it clear. Against a competent opponent, most of what flies will die. There are just too many man-portable and truck-mounted systems that can take do…

All of the above, you can’t wage an air-war without tankers, logistics, and large, antenna covered advanced warning and control aircraft (see the AWACS). It’s well known that the CCP has specifically targeted development of long-range air to air missiles so that they could target these types of aircraft behind the front line.

Unfortunately I’m less than optimistic about this particular program actually producing a functional aircraft. The company here is asking for way too little time and too little money to produce a full-sized manned demonstrator IMHO. Especially for a company that has no track record of actually producing full-scale, manned aircraft. It seems like they’re trying to get additional private investment to build their demonstrator but who knows.

Re: Air Force funds ‘blended wing body’ design for long-range, fuel-efficient flight

#22
post #4

It used to be said this would fail in passenger markets because windows. The reality of long haul travel these days is that windows are really only "I can lean here" choices which restrict access to the aisle, for any trans-oceanic journey. For domestic flights, I am sure there are window seat aficionado who will continue to pay for window in flight. For everyone else, and by current seating maps there are a LOT more…

If this is the only practical solution for hydrogen fuelled aircraft, then it can't fail in passenger markets because there will be no other alternative to compete against once kerosene is too ecologically taxed.

Is there even a hydrogen turbojet engine?

Re: Air Force funds ‘blended wing body’ design for long-range, fuel-efficient flight

#23
post #16
post #4

It used to be said this would fail in passenger markets because windows. The reality of long haul travel these days is that windows are really only "I can lean here" choices which restrict access to the aisle, for any trans-oceanic journey. For domestic flights, I am sure there are window seat aficionado who will continue to pay for window in flight. For everyone else, and by current seating maps there are a LOT more…

Maybe we’d gain enough space for a designated viewing area passengers could visit.

Perhaps on a few planes, but for most, economics means it'll make more sense to just put more seats there.

Re: Air Force funds ‘blended wing body’ design for long-range, fuel-efficient flight

#24
post #4

It used to be said this would fail in passenger markets because windows. The reality of long haul travel these days is that windows are really only "I can lean here" choices which restrict access to the aisle, for any trans-oceanic journey. For domestic flights, I am sure there are window seat aficionado who will continue to pay for window in flight. For everyone else, and by current seating maps there are a LOT more…

Imagine if it's designed like this:

----------------

and you're seated here

--------|-------

Uh pardon me, excuse, pardon me... to get out

Re: Air Force funds ‘blended wing body’ design for long-range, fuel-efficient flight

#25
post #18

Nice. NASA and Airbus have both flown blended-wing unmanned test aircraft. Not sure what role this serves for the USAF. It's a transport. Wider loads? Stealth? The US has had total air superiority in every conflict since the Korean War. That's over. The Ukraine war makes it clear. Against a competent opponent, most of what flies will die. There are just too many man-portable and truck-mounted systems that can take do…

Russia would fall like Iraq if we were to attack. Their ground-based anti-air would be hit as soon as even one missile is fired, every radar would be hit within minutes of powering on, their aircraft wiped out as soon as they were within range. With air supremacy we'd be able to fire a precision strike on every piece of active artillery and supply truck. They'd be left with nothing but men starving in trenches and running out of bullets, waiting for death as the sappers close in. It's a crying shame we don't send Ukraine even a tenth of our equipment.

Re: Air Force funds ‘blended wing body’ design for long-range, fuel-efficient flight

#26
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we’d gain enough space for a designated viewing area passengers could visit.

I love your optimism. There are already designating viewing areas and bars for people who shell out first class $$$. But vast majority of people happen to be rational economic agents who choose lower price tickets. So the reality is - there will just be more seats.

Also, the best viewing is typically at landing and takeoff when everyone needs to be seated anyway, so I expect it'll end up as a selection of outdoor camera feeds that are available from your seat-back display.

Re: Air Force funds ‘blended wing body’ design for long-range, fuel-efficient flight

#27
post #16
post #4

It used to be said this would fail in passenger markets because windows. The reality of long haul travel these days is that windows are really only "I can lean here" choices which restrict access to the aisle, for any trans-oceanic journey. For domestic flights, I am sure there are window seat aficionado who will continue to pay for window in flight. For everyone else, and by current seating maps there are a LOT more…

Maybe we’d gain enough space for a designated viewing area passengers could visit.

Or maybe put up partitions in the middle of the plane with digital "windows" embedded inside

Re: Air Force funds ‘blended wing body’ design for long-range, fuel-efficient flight

#28
post #4

It used to be said this would fail in passenger markets because windows. The reality of long haul travel these days is that windows are really only "I can lean here" choices which restrict access to the aisle, for any trans-oceanic journey. For domestic flights, I am sure there are window seat aficionado who will continue to pay for window in flight. For everyone else, and by current seating maps there are a LOT more…

Here's Jack Northrop's view of a flying wing passenger plane. There's a longer version somewhere but I can't find it. Fitting that JetZero is teaming with Northrop Grumman/Scaled Composites on this. I wonder how the workshare divides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMTwQ9b5hvk

Re: Air Force funds ‘blended wing body’ design for long-range, fuel-efficient flight

#29
post #4

It used to be said this would fail in passenger markets because windows. The reality of long haul travel these days is that windows are really only "I can lean here" choices which restrict access to the aisle, for any trans-oceanic journey. For domestic flights, I am sure there are window seat aficionado who will continue to pay for window in flight. For everyone else, and by current seating maps there are a LOT more…

> If it has to be a freight or logistics/materiel/fuel aircraft for the forces before general service, so be it.

The challenge for that is economic: those use cases which are generally filled with adaptations of older generation aircraft at the moment probably don't pay back the R&D costs of the programme. Especially since a viable civil aircraft programme also involves worldwide line maintenance capability, a liquid aftermarket etc.

Blended wings are are not a novel idea, and the major airframers have produced multiple concepts, often combined with theoretically much more efficient open rotor engines. The first attempt at a blended wing passenger aircraft was actually over 100 years ago (it was years ahead of its time... and it crashed on its first flight). But there are a lot of challenges other than the passenger experience characteristics people have already mentioned: instead of a simple tube, you now have a broad internal space that needs bracing in a way which doesn't add weight or negate space advantages, and novel designs greatly increased uncertainty in an industry whose safety record relies on predictability. And there's commercial conservatism in an industry whose customer base invests billions in new airframes on the expectation of commonality with existing airframes, phased replacements over predictable replacement cycles etc, and where the second entrance to the market sector might well be the most successful....

Military use involves completely different economics, but for related reasons the anticipated greater fuel efficiency is rarely a big deal for the military. Still, if the military write blank checks, that leaves scope for prototypes that airline executives might struggle to say no to

Re: Air Force funds ‘blended wing body’ design for long-range, fuel-efficient flight

#30
post #4

It used to be said this would fail in passenger markets because windows. The reality of long haul travel these days is that windows are really only "I can lean here" choices which restrict access to the aisle, for any trans-oceanic journey. For domestic flights, I am sure there are window seat aficionado who will continue to pay for window in flight. For everyone else, and by current seating maps there are a LOT more…

BWB aircraft have a few more issues than just a lack of window seats. They require a higher angle of attack on take-off and landing, and, with passengers sitting much further from the centerline of the aircraft than on a conventional design, passengers are subject to much more g-forces during roll maneuvers. The second issue can be mitigated by avoiding rolling the aircraft and/or by performing less aggressive rolls,…

I wonder if you could tilt everyone's seats forward during takeoff and landing. I've seen very high density seating in the far east where people are virtually standing. Maybe the seats could start off that way, stay that way through takeoff and ascent, then gently lower to a normal posture in level flight.
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