China’s property giant Evergrande files for bankruptcy protection in Manhattan

Post by johnnymorgan » Sat, Aug 19, 2023, 8:47 AM UTC

fnordpiglet wrote: post #290

wenyuanyu wrote: post #220

The Chinese government's approach to dealing with failing real-estate companies, including Evergrande, is distinct from typical Western bailouts. In China, the strategy often involves allowing such companies to default in a controlled manner. Given that the major lenders and banks are state-owned , this essentially means that the government bears the loss through these institutions (what else can happen anyway??) . A…

It’s interesting we hear the terms “bail out” when connected with how the US managed major institutional collapse. However from what I experienced on the street during these “bail outs,” Lehman, Bear, SVB, First Republic no longer exist. Their assets were salvaged and remaining functional assets acquired. The fed, treasury, and other institutions involved in the bailout ended up making handsome profits from the reper…

Post by anovikov » Sat, Aug 19, 2023, 12:36 PM UTC

ethbr1 wrote: post #333

anovikov wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean oligarchs. I mean everyday men and women. People don't want to be politically active because they know that Putin allows and wants them to acquire wealth (and even has no problem with them exporting that wealth abroad); and they also know that the masses don't want them to be allowed that, and if Putin is out, most probably masses will have it their way.

Everyday men and women, which I take to mean middle class, aren't a threat or power base in modern Russia. They don't have voting power. They don't have demonstration power. They don't have access to broadcast their free speech via mass media. Short of outright rioting, there's little they can do that matters to the Russian government. Which means than in a trade-off between {what the people want} and {what those wit…

Post by sneed-oil » Sat, Aug 19, 2023, 2:39 PM UTC

keepamovin wrote: post #368

type0 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The simple truth is China would not have been able to achieve the scale of productivity and growth that it has In plan economy, controlled corruption is a feature not a bug

Can you explain more? What's the theory or practice behind corruption adding benefit to the extent that you want to work it in?

Post by hnfong » Sat, Aug 19, 2023, 3:59 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #241

wenyuanyu wrote: post #220

The Chinese government's approach to dealing with failing real-estate companies, including Evergrande, is distinct from typical Western bailouts. In China, the strategy often involves allowing such companies to default in a controlled manner. Given that the major lenders and banks are state-owned , this essentially means that the government bears the loss through these institutions (what else can happen anyway??) . A…

They also trade it in the market, and anyone who tried to raise warning bells early is censored. Andrew Left got banned from trading in HK in 2016 because he said the company was doomed. We’ve known for a long time that Evergrande was in serious trouble, that was 7 years ago, and the Chinese government’s solution was to look for suckers who would listen to them rather than look at the numbers.

Post by cscurmudgeon » Sat, Aug 19, 2023, 4:06 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #24

greesil wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism, like socialism, or postmodernism, or the labels conservative or liberal are almost devoid of meaning. But please, both the parent commenter and you keep arguing what the true meaning of capitalism is. Meanwhile I will head to the market and barter some of my guns for butter.

The problem with these terms is not that they have no meaning, it's that they have no context-free virtue. Prohibiting leaded gasoline is good and prohibiting housing construction is bad, even if they're both government regulations. Competitive markets are good and concentrated markets are bad, even if they're both markets. But people want to assign a label to the category instead of the instance, and then they fight…