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Short session expiration does not help security

sjoerdlangkemper.nl

301–310 of 434 posts

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to keep someone's plaintext password in the database to compare. Just re-calculate hashes against historical hashes at new password time. If the hashing process is secure keeping a few old hashes isn't really a security concern, especially if people are actually using unique passwords. Now, normally this is tied to an automatic password rotation policy, because allowing a previous password completely u…

I have seen sites that complain if your password is too similar to a previous password, and that shouldn't be possible with hashes. So who knows of the sites that look for exact matches are looking at the hashes or not.

correct. security often compromises itself for sake of itself. It's stupid and is the "lowest denominator" thinking. If they store a history of hashes, one could compare them but not classify similarity. Only whether it was used previously or not. I get down voted by the security folks who think this practice is a good idea. It's not. It's a horrible idea. So is enforcing 30m session/cookie timeouts. Or constantly scanning your machine for "threats". Pegging your CPU at 100%, 100% of the time. Security folks are like the mall cops of IT. Not saying that's everybody. There's some terminators out there, or Jack Ryans, but most are Paul Blart. They want to read your emails, see your browsing history, read your chats, get offended if you criticize them, bring you into HR if you circumvent their crappy jump box backdoor into AWS...

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#302

> Perhaps you used the shared computer in the library to access your web application, and forgot to log out. > Is this a thing? Are shared computers without user separation a thing? If so, these shouldn’t be used to access web applications with sensitive information at all. Yes, it is a thing. I understand you would like it to not be a thing.

Even if it is a thing - after using a shared computer one MUST log out. If the 15 minute expiration time saved you then you're just damned lucky!

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#303
post #286

The main place I see short session expirations is on banking and financial apps, which seems defensible to me for a couple of reasons: 1) They're used by a wide variety of people, including people who may not own a computer or mobile device, or who may not have a backup device to use when their personal device breaks. This group is probably shrinking—more and more people have smartphones and the remaining people who…

My main bank uses username + password + (random subset of ‘memorable word but actually unencrypted password’ driven by select boxes), then 2FA on top, and it literally feels like they just slapped a bunch of things together to add extra barriers to auth in sequence. This is the UK. Back in Latvia I would just slide my ID card into a USB reader and cryptographically sign the session with a passcode. Same as chip & pin…

I’m so envious of the Baltic’s use of technology at the institutional level.

It seems literally infeasible for the United States to have state-issued PKI. It’s a meta-partisan issue: no side trusts the other to manage crypto or computer systems.

So for example instead of a public many-to-many digital publishing platform we are stuck with the whims of grown men who want to fist fight each other in the Colosseum and all because every X is convinced every Y is so despicable and corrupt that such a public system would be much worse than what we have now.

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#305
post #104

"Thank got we set the session timeout to 5 minutes, or we would have been compromised" - no one ever. I am in the 10-hour session timeout camp (or at least 4h, so you only have to authenticate twice a day). Session timeout checks are same sort of checkbox tests auditors (and pentesters) like, like password policy where you have to change it every 90 days. And about as effective. What's missing in the article is the d…

It really depends. I would certainly comment less often on HN if it logged me out at 4 hours. For my online banking it's okay if they kick me out after 15-30 min.

It literally prevents me from banking well. It’s not enough time to do banking tasks that require analysis or reading.

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#306
post #262

This is total bullshit. Stolen sessions are being actively sold on Darknet in bulk. If nothing else the best thing that can happen is that they have expired before someone have the time to exploit them.

Good idea. Let’s set it to 0 minutes. If they’re not in an active mouse click rhythm just nigh of Liszt, log em out! is what I always say.

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#307
post #286

The main place I see short session expirations is on banking and financial apps, which seems defensible to me for a couple of reasons: 1) They're used by a wide variety of people, including people who may not own a computer or mobile device, or who may not have a backup device to use when their personal device breaks. This group is probably shrinking—more and more people have smartphones and the remaining people who…

My main bank uses username + password + (random subset of ‘memorable word but actually unencrypted password’ driven by select boxes), then 2FA on top, and it literally feels like they just slapped a bunch of things together to add extra barriers to auth in sequence. This is the UK. Back in Latvia I would just slide my ID card into a USB reader and cryptographically sign the session with a passcode. Same as chip & pin…

Spains banks (I’ve used two so far) simply use your ID number which is used in a lot of places and not considered secret and enforces a 4 digit password.

It’s an absolute joke.

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#309

The main place I see short session expirations is on banking and financial apps, which seems defensible to me for a couple of reasons: 1) They're used by a wide variety of people, including people who may not own a computer or mobile device, or who may not have a backup device to use when their personal device breaks. This group is probably shrinking—more and more people have smartphones and the remaining people who…

Health services also log you out after ~15min. Kaiser, One Medical, Epic Mychart, etc. Very annoying
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