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Ask vs. Guess Culture

jeanhsu.substack.com

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Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#211

Post by Aerbil313 »

sethhochberg wrote: post #187
xeromal wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's lived in both environments, I think most urban people develop a shell from the constant interaction that's required in a city. People selling wares, hobos/homeless, and a stronger need to protect oneself. You have to be blunt or you'll never get anywhere. lol.

This is advice preached to people visiting NYC all the time. The person on the corner asking “excuse me sir may I please ask you a question” almost certainly has ulterior motives. Locals in a busy neighborhood ignore a guy like that a few times a day. But the person on the corner who says “hey which way is the 7 train?” with no preamble is gonna get good answers, despite being less traditionally polite. Where there i…

That's a very good analysis, so much it seems obvious in retrospect. But I think it misses one other factor: I've witnessed the most rural people to adopt ask-culture when they were guess people before. My gut says this has something to do with social media/smartphones but idk.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#212

Post by caminante »

IshKebab wrote: post #28
jedberg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's just another name for that. But this article paints high-context as bad and low-context as good, when they're really just different (and opposite ends of a spectrum, not a black or white one or another).

It's definitely bad in a work context where clear and effective communication is important. You're probably thinking "but implicit communication is just as effective!" but it definitely isn't. It's all about hints and guessing motivations which is inevitably unreliable.

These are always fun "pop-sci" discussions, but the wiki says this whole dichotomy has been debunked [0].

I can't think of any company that doesn't have some low-context interfaces. It can be expensive for top executives to constantly address every question with "clear and effective communication." Some people make it look easy, but it's hard!

[0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-context_and_low-context...

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#213

Post by caminante »

Tronno wrote: post #8

I disagree with the way these behaviors are portrayed as a cultural dichotomy. To me, the author's examples all fall under ineffective communication. Their example of "ask culture" involves stoking resentment by making unreasonable requests. This can be avoided by practicing a little empathy. Ask questions, provide some basic context, and offer an escape hatch: "What are you busy with? I need X because Y. It's fine i…

As posted above, the dichotomy is "popsci" fiction with little substantiation.[0]

Yet, I think it's useful for awareness.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-context_and_low-context...

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#214

Post by brazzledazzle »

h4l wrote: post #155
boppo1 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>addressed your childhood trauma This is pretty frustrating as 90s-kid who had a Good Childhood™ and struggles with interpersonal issues. I have a close friend from childhood who also had quite a Good Childhood™ and he can't shut up about "trauma" and it seems like every two years he has this big epiphany about how he addressed some "trauma" he was previously repressing and how now that he's done so he's All Better N…

I think it's relative to our own experiences. If you drive on a perfect road, even a small bump is noticeable. But I don't think that means people's perception of problems is not legitimate. There's always someone worse off, especially if you compare now to historical times. If there's a sure-fire way to create a mental health problem, it's to tell yourself you don't deserve to have a problem because other people hav…

I think trauma is also a bit relative. If you grew up with bad physical and emotional abuse from one parent the emotional distance and isolation from another might not even be a blip on your radar, at least until you've worked through the other stuff. And on the flip side if you had a great childhood with stable housing, plenty of food/money then hitting rock bottom in adulthood might be pretty traumatic since you never had to develop the mental tools required to handle serious adversity. Obviously some trauma is objectively worse but competing over trauma severity is pointless.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#215

Post by Aerbil313 »

smeej wrote: post #18
noahlt wrote: post #2

The "Ask vs Guess" name rhetorically frames it in favor of the Askers. Asking sounds reasonable, guessing does not! But really it's not about "Guessing", it's about understanding. It's about community, and relationship, and trust. What this culture really wants is for you to pay attention and understand the people around you, rather than treating everything as a transaction.

Hmm. I think I've primarily experienced the really dark side of guess culture, so I appreciate your framing of it as a desire for understanding when it's in a healthy context. I've experienced it in the contexts of narcissism and borderline personality, where the underlying thought is, "I am so obviously the center of the world that anyone with half a brain who's paying a whit of attention should to intuit my needs w…

> "I am so obviously the center of the world that ... If I have to speak, you have already failed."

IME this person is always a women dominating her family. Idk why.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#216

Post by galaxyLogic »

jzb wrote: post #202
voxl wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose different people will have different tastes, but I will never agree that this is rude and that you should not ask. You should not be upset when declined, but that is another matter.

The problem is that people do get upset. Basically, you're forcing someone else to be the asshole by saying no or justify why they don't want to share or do something. Rudeness is, of course, a subjective thing. Some people think it's rude to wear shoes indoors, some people think it's rude to make specific gestures that are either OK or meaningless to me. My wife is an asker. It's a definite challenge at times...

The rude thing is to not offer any reward in return for you, if you agree to their request.

It's just saying they want to take advantage of you if you fall for it. Making such a request means that they are happy to take advantage of you as long as you let them. Is that unethical?

Think of it this way: You own a truly valuable stamp but you don't know its value. Then somebody who knows its value offers to exchange it for their stamp of much lesser value, without telling you what they know about its value.

It may not be unethical, businesses are based on such behavior. Buy low and sell high to make a profit. But when you see such behavior by your friends or neighbors or colleagues, be aware. They are the kind of people who are happy to take advantage of you.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#217

Post by thefourthchime »

hinkley wrote: post #160
quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

This reminds me of John Mulaney’s bit about Jewish versus Catholic culture. He loved that he didn’t have to guess what his girlfriend was thinking, she would just tell him. No filter. For some people that can be rude or shocking. For others the opposite can be exhausting. The middle ground of mind games is the fucking worst. “Go do that thing I don’t like. It’s fine.” “Why did he go? He knew I was upset!” He answered…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogHxa4aPXN8

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#218

Post by dustincoates »

EGreg wrote: post #148
robotresearcher wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the same time, automation and productivity has reduced demand for human labor We have approximately the lowest unemployment rate in modern history.

That’s only a tiny slice of the story. It doesn’t count the people who have opted out of the workforce. It doesn’t count the job insecuroty of the gig economy. Or the people with terrible conditions. It actually underscores the fact that both sexes flooded the labor pool in the last few decades, automation increased and wages got depressed due to all these factors. USSR also had near-total employment, for men and wom…

> It doesn’t count the people who have opted out of the workforce.

Not the headline number, but in the US you certainly can find this data if you want it, in the U4, U5, and U6 rates:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U4RATE

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U5RATE

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE

It only goes back to 1994, but these measures are currently all at or near the lows over the that period.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#219

Post by crooked-v »

sss111 wrote: post #194
hinkley wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of John Mulaney’s bit about Jewish versus Catholic culture. He loved that he didn’t have to guess what his girlfriend was thinking, she would just tell him. No filter. For some people that can be rude or shocking. For others the opposite can be exhausting. The middle ground of mind games is the fucking worst. “Go do that thing I don’t like. It’s fine.” “Why did he go? He knew I was upset!” He answered…

do you have a link or timestamp for this?

Probably this segment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogHxa4aPXN8

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#220

Post by Nifty3929 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #17
jacobkg wrote: post #3

I remember when I first heard about this concept and found it explained a big difference between my brother and I that I had struggled to articulate (he is an asker and I am a guesser)

Interesting, because you were presumably raised in the same culture?

There is another interesting dichotomy between people who phase questions as statements, and those who don’t?
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