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Ask vs. Guess Culture

jeanhsu.substack.com

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Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#151

Post by robotresearcher »

retrac wrote: post #70
jzb wrote: post #12

"It’s rude to put someone in a position where they have to say no to you" I feel this in my bones. When I was a kid my dad went off on me after we visited someone's house and I saw cake on the counter and asked for a slice. That was just unacceptable. (Context: He was raised by people who lived through the depression. Food scarcity was a real thing in living memory.) Even though his reaction was way overboard, I stil…

That may work relatively well with consumables like food. But it extends in many directions. I have fans and a space heater and extra blankets and etc. All of them are available for a houseguest to use. Many of them are stored in the guest room. I've had "guess culture" people stay over. Really, in my mind they don't even need to ask. They're already welcome to take an extra blanket. But they won't even ask, and they…

> to give them to adults seems a little infantilizing

The 'mi casa es su casa / make yourself at home' concept is perfectly normal and won't cause offense to anyone, surely?

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#152

Post by BoxFour »

nostrademons wrote: post #109
BoxFour wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'd suggest that: 1) A substantial number of individuals in the bay aren't originally from there. 2) Assuming the role of a startup founder inherently demands a familiarity with ask culture. One of the initial steps frequently involves requesting significant amounts of money from individuals, with minimal consequence to the borrower if it doesn't materialize to anything!

That's precisely what makes Western (and particularly American) culture an "ask" one, though. Ask cultures arise when you have a great diversity of individuals and can't make assumptions on their backgrounds, desires, or how they would interpret an interaction. Guess cultures arise when you have a long period of stability, and communities that form and persist over generations. When this happens, you can start to mak…

I see what you're getting at. My intention was to highlight that I don't believe Silicon Valley culture is synonymous with Bay Area culture. In my interactions with individuals who were raised in Northern California or even the Bay Area, I’ve seen a lot of “guess” culture fairly similar to the PNW.

To phrase it differently, a significant number of the people you’re thinking of probably wont establish lasting roots in the Bay and thus wouldn't be passing down that culture to the subsequent generation of Bay Area youngsters.

It's a thought-provoking query indeed though, pondering what characterizes the "prototypical San Franciscan" and how that might evolve over time!

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#153

Post by adamweld »

boppo1 wrote: post #104
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I’ve learned anything in my 20 year mental health journey, it’s that until you’ve addressed your childhood trauma, nothing you do will be a lasting fix for any interpersonal issues you may have.

>addressed your childhood trauma This is pretty frustrating as 90s-kid who had a Good Childhood™ and struggles with interpersonal issues. I have a close friend from childhood who also had quite a Good Childhood™ and he can't shut up about "trauma" and it seems like every two years he has this big epiphany about how he addressed some "trauma" he was previously repressing and how now that he's done so he's All Better N…

FWIW the data agrees with you, for milder cases of anxiety and depression, which often correlate with interpersonal issues, talk therapy (e.g. dissecting childhood trauma) is much less effective than cognitive behavioral therapy (analyzing behavioral and emotional patterns, trying to catch and redirect cycles of thought and action that lead to negative outcomes).

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#154

Post by bena »

retrac wrote: post #70
jzb wrote: post #12

"It’s rude to put someone in a position where they have to say no to you" I feel this in my bones. When I was a kid my dad went off on me after we visited someone's house and I saw cake on the counter and asked for a slice. That was just unacceptable. (Context: He was raised by people who lived through the depression. Food scarcity was a real thing in living memory.) Even though his reaction was way overboard, I stil…

That may work relatively well with consumables like food. But it extends in many directions. I have fans and a space heater and extra blankets and etc. All of them are available for a houseguest to use. Many of them are stored in the guest room. I've had "guess culture" people stay over. Really, in my mind they don't even need to ask. They're already welcome to take an extra blanket. But they won't even ask, and they…

First, you should let people know, that if they need anything, they can ask.

Then, there are levels. If it's just on the edge of being colder than I'd like, I might not say anything because the effort isn't worth it. It's 65 instead of 70, I'll live. But if you ask me tomorrow how was it, I'll tell you, "Slightly cooler than I'm used to, but no problem". And people will make a fuss and say "Well, why didn't you aaaassssk" Because, like I also said, it wasn't a problem.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#155

Post by h4l »

boppo1 wrote: post #104
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I’ve learned anything in my 20 year mental health journey, it’s that until you’ve addressed your childhood trauma, nothing you do will be a lasting fix for any interpersonal issues you may have.

>addressed your childhood trauma This is pretty frustrating as 90s-kid who had a Good Childhood™ and struggles with interpersonal issues. I have a close friend from childhood who also had quite a Good Childhood™ and he can't shut up about "trauma" and it seems like every two years he has this big epiphany about how he addressed some "trauma" he was previously repressing and how now that he's done so he's All Better N…

I think it's relative to our own experiences. If you drive on a perfect road, even a small bump is noticeable. But I don't think that means people's perception of problems is not legitimate. There's always someone worse off, especially if you compare now to historical times.

If there's a sure-fire way to create a mental health problem, it's to tell yourself you don't deserve to have a problem because other people have worse problems.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#156

Post by robotresearcher »

EGreg wrote: post #148
robotresearcher wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the same time, automation and productivity has reduced demand for human labor We have approximately the lowest unemployment rate in modern history.

That’s only a tiny slice of the story. It doesn’t count the people who have opted out of the workforce. It doesn’t count the job insecuroty of the gig economy. Or the people with terrible conditions. It actually underscores the fact that both sexes flooded the labor pool in the last few decades, automation increased and wages got depressed due to all these factors. USSR also had near-total employment, for men and wom…

Agree with all that. I disagree only that demand for labor has decreased, and near-full employment is my evidence for that. Many jobs are shitty, but someone is demanding the labor.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#158

Post by [deleted] »

bena wrote: post #154
retrac wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may work relatively well with consumables like food. But it extends in many directions. I have fans and a space heater and extra blankets and etc. All of them are available for a houseguest to use. Many of them are stored in the guest room. I've had "guess culture" people stay over. Really, in my mind they don't even need to ask. They're already welcome to take an extra blanket. But they won't even ask, and they…

First, you should let people know, that if they need anything, they can ask. Then, there are levels. If it's just on the edge of being colder than I'd like, I might not say anything because the effort isn't worth it. It's 65 instead of 70, I'll live. But if you ask me tomorrow how was it, I'll tell you, "Slightly cooler than I'm used to, but no problem". And people will make a fuss and say "Well, why didn't you aaaas…

[deleted]

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#159

Post by prewett »

crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #110

Would someone explain the difference between codependency and "guess culture"?

Codependency is when one person gets value for solving other people's problems for them ("saving" them), and the other person gets value out of having their problems being solved by other people (having a "savior").

Guess Culture is more of a strong value on considering the needs of others. It could be unhealthy: considering the needs of others and neglecting your own, but it could also be courteous consideration ("they just got over being sick, I won't ask them to help me move").

I suppose Guess Culture unhealthiness tends to be more neglecting your own needs and desires (and the your resulting hurt and anger that the other person needs to deal with), while Ask Culture unhealthiness tends more towards lack of consideration (ridiculous asks) or demanding (asks that have a question mark but are not really questions).

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#160

Post by hinkley »

quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

This reminds me of John Mulaney’s bit about Jewish versus Catholic culture. He loved that he didn’t have to guess what his girlfriend was thinking, she would just tell him. No filter.

For some people that can be rude or shocking. For others the opposite can be exhausting. The middle ground of mind games is the fucking worst. “Go do that thing I don’t like. It’s fine.” “Why did he go? He knew I was upset!” He answered your passive aggressive bullshit with his own passive aggressive bullshit. That’s why. Good luck in couples therapy.

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