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Ask vs. Guess Culture

jeanhsu.substack.com

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Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#191

Post by moffkalast »

noahlt wrote: post #2

The "Ask vs Guess" name rhetorically frames it in favor of the Askers. Asking sounds reasonable, guessing does not! But really it's not about "Guessing", it's about understanding. It's about community, and relationship, and trust. What this culture really wants is for you to pay attention and understand the people around you, rather than treating everything as a transaction.

I'm not sure if I see it that way, both extremes equally lead to dysfunctional interactions.

You shouldn't feel bad for asking for help when you need it and other people haven't noticed it, and it's good to be mindful of those around you and what they need. A balance of both should be healthy.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#192

Post by platz »

smeej wrote: post #18
noahlt wrote: post #2

The "Ask vs Guess" name rhetorically frames it in favor of the Askers. Asking sounds reasonable, guessing does not! But really it's not about "Guessing", it's about understanding. It's about community, and relationship, and trust. What this culture really wants is for you to pay attention and understand the people around you, rather than treating everything as a transaction.

Hmm. I think I've primarily experienced the really dark side of guess culture, so I appreciate your framing of it as a desire for understanding when it's in a healthy context. I've experienced it in the contexts of narcissism and borderline personality, where the underlying thought is, "I am so obviously the center of the world that anyone with half a brain who's paying a whit of attention should to intuit my needs w…

I expect you incorporate aspects of "guess" culture without even realizing it.

For example, Is it okay if I bang your wife/gf?

If you think that's a rude question, why? All I'v done is Ask.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#193

Post by ketzo »

burlesona wrote: post #137
quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

This is fascinating to me, because I'm from the southern US and strongly align to "ask culture" and my wife is from the northwest and strongly aligns to "guess" culture. I wonder how much it's about individual family background and not strongly regional?

When you say that your experience in the south is more Ask -- who is usually doing the asking, host or guest?

I said this down the thread but my experience (grew up in the south) has always been that Southerners are very up-front about trying to meet your needs before you can even ask for them. That was always how I was taught to host, anyway.

And I think that weirdly, that's more aligned with Guess culture: the person who needs something should never have to ask for it.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#194

Post by sss111 »

hinkley wrote: post #160
quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

This reminds me of John Mulaney’s bit about Jewish versus Catholic culture. He loved that he didn’t have to guess what his girlfriend was thinking, she would just tell him. No filter. For some people that can be rude or shocking. For others the opposite can be exhausting. The middle ground of mind games is the fucking worst. “Go do that thing I don’t like. It’s fine.” “Why did he go? He knew I was upset!” He answered…

do you have a link or timestamp for this?

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#195

Post by smeej »

platz wrote: post #192
smeej wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. I think I've primarily experienced the really dark side of guess culture, so I appreciate your framing of it as a desire for understanding when it's in a healthy context. I've experienced it in the contexts of narcissism and borderline personality, where the underlying thought is, "I am so obviously the center of the world that anyone with half a brain who's paying a whit of attention should to intuit my needs w…

I expect you incorporate aspects of "guess" culture without even realizing it. For example, Is it okay if I bang your wife/gf? If you think that's a rude question, why? All I'v done is Ask.

I don't think I understand your example, but that may come from having had more than my share of polyamorous friends.

By default, I would take your request at face value and have no trouble saying, "No, we're monogamous, but I can't very well blame you for wanting to!"

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#196

Post by nicup12345689 »

boppo1 wrote: post #104
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I’ve learned anything in my 20 year mental health journey, it’s that until you’ve addressed your childhood trauma, nothing you do will be a lasting fix for any interpersonal issues you may have.

>addressed your childhood trauma This is pretty frustrating as 90s-kid who had a Good Childhood™ and struggles with interpersonal issues. I have a close friend from childhood who also had quite a Good Childhood™ and he can't shut up about "trauma" and it seems like every two years he has this big epiphany about how he addressed some "trauma" he was previously repressing and how now that he's done so he's All Better N…

I think the key is to inspect the childhood trauma, however small, BUT don't try and make it your identity. You are just making some things conscious, understanding yourself. The moment it becomes a crutch, it is just an excuse for not taking agency over your own life.

In a way it is the perfect excuse, a childhood determinism of sorts. Blame everything just to avoid ANY change of the self.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#197

Post by platz »

smeej wrote: post #195
platz wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect you incorporate aspects of "guess" culture without even realizing it. For example, Is it okay if I bang your wife/gf? If you think that's a rude question, why? All I'v done is Ask.

I don't think I understand your example, but that may come from having had more than my share of polyamorous friends. By default, I would take your request at face value and have no trouble saying, "No, we're monogamous, but I can't very well blame you for wanting to!"

very well, but what percentage of the population do you think would consider that rude.

Of course, the nut of the question is whether its ever possible to be rude with a question. If it's possible to be rude with a statement, I don't really see the difference between questions and statements, at the higest level, though

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#198

Post by davideg »

noahlt wrote: post #2

The "Ask vs Guess" name rhetorically frames it in favor of the Askers. Asking sounds reasonable, guessing does not! But really it's not about "Guessing", it's about understanding. It's about community, and relationship, and trust. What this culture really wants is for you to pay attention and understand the people around you, rather than treating everything as a transaction.

I appreciate you calling this out! In my community we started talking about it as "Ask" vs "Attune" culture. On the one hand do you assume everyone will be explicit with their wants, needs, and boundaries? On the other, do you pay attention to who you're engaging with, their general disposition, their communication style preferences, etc?

I personally like to keep a balance between the two extremes and try to adapt my behavior to who I'm engaging with (you can tell I'm comfortable in an "Attune" culture environment, but I appreciate when people are up front and communicative about their needs, wants, and boundaries). Considering the power differentials at play and the ability for someone to enforce their true boundaries is really important to me, and also having meta conversations to encourage folks to speak up about their needs and boundaries.

In a work context, I will have a meta conversation with someone about their preferred communication style, how they want to receive feedback, how they want to be checked in with, etc. to avoid mismatched communication expectations.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#199

Post by lostlogin »

detourdog wrote: post #59
quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

Baltic state heritage and you sound like my kind of guest/host. To quote Jerad/Donald at Silicon Valley: “I like when people yell at me, at least I know where I stand”.

This is a lot like the fantastic line by Scaramucci: 'Where I grew up, we're front stabbers'

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-40748918

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#200

Post by h4l »

jimmaswell wrote: post #165
h4l wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's relative to our own experiences. If you drive on a perfect road, even a small bump is noticeable. But I don't think that means people's perception of problems is not legitimate. There's always someone worse off, especially if you compare now to historical times. If there's a sure-fire way to create a mental health problem, it's to tell yourself you don't deserve to have a problem because other people hav…

I always think of this SMBC strip. https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2011-07-22

I love it, thanks!
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