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Ask vs. Guess Culture

jeanhsu.substack.com

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Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#161

Post by amerkhalid »

noahlt wrote: post #2

The "Ask vs Guess" name rhetorically frames it in favor of the Askers. Asking sounds reasonable, guessing does not! But really it's not about "Guessing", it's about understanding. It's about community, and relationship, and trust. What this culture really wants is for you to pay attention and understand the people around you, rather than treating everything as a transaction.

I am from guess culture, it is almost impossible for me to decipher needs of everyone and communicate my needs without asking. Unless those needs are very standard traditional needs like offering water to a guest, giving up seat for an elder etc. And it is not just me it seems everyone seems to misunderstand and everyone complains about others who didn't guess their needs correctly.

Using the example from article, the mover would be complaining about everyone who didn't guess that they needed help with moving and how they had given soup to all those people.

I really appreciate ask culture and find it much easier to navigate. It is so much easier to hangout with friends who can just ask for what they want or just say no. I have learned to ask but still find it stressful to say no.

Speaking of no, in my culture, apparently, no means, "ask me again I am just being polite, I will say yes after your ask me 3rd time."

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#162

Post by samus »

wrboyce wrote: post #111
samus wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are ways around that, by phrasing questions in a different way so the other person does not have to respond with a hard "no". Yes, this requires prior acquaintance with that communication culture, and integration by relative outsiders can be difficult.

Sorry but this is bullshit and putting the onus on the wrong person. “No” is a complete sentence and I don’t see the problem with using it, if you do (after say, I’ve asked for you a slice of cake) but can’t think of another phrasing (“I’m afraid not”, “maybe after you dinner”, “ask your father”; there are endless possibilities - especially when dealing with children) then the issue is your vocabulary, and not my fai…

I guess that is your background from a more "ask"-like culture speaking, where things are put out more explicitly. Meanwhile "guess"-like cultures value "getting along" more highly and try to avoid the hard "no". Yes, this often stems from different underlying value systems that we might perceive as toxic.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#163

Post by linster »

throwanem wrote: post #123
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I’ve learned anything in my 20 year mental health journey, it’s that until you’ve addressed your childhood trauma, nothing you do will be a lasting fix for any interpersonal issues you may have.

If you've learned anything in your 20-year mental health journey, I hope it would be that not everyone is exactly like you, nor needs the same things you need. It's remarkably self-centered to assume the prescription that's suited you is exactly right for everyone else, don't you think?

Wow that’s a pile-on.

“What works for you only works for you, so you might not have discovered that it works for anything else, but only if you were really paying attention.”

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#164

Post by reddit_clone »

sircastor wrote: post #74
wccrawford wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I was studying Japanese, I learned that they go out of their way to make it so the other person doesn't have to refuse with a "no". For instance, they'll ask, "Do you not have X?" instead of "Do you have X?" The person can answer "Yes, we don't have it" or "It's over here". I actually made this mistake, asking for a product directly instead of negatively, when I was in Tokyo. The clerk took me to the aisle and…

There may be an obvious language barrier here, but the coupling of a positive with a negative response feels very odd to me in English. I'm reminded of the old song (it was used for an advertising jingle for a product or company I can't remember) "Yes, we have no bananas!" Adjacently, I really dislike the courtroom phrasing "Isn't it true?" that is sometimes depicted in legal dramas.

Indeed.

>"Do you not have X?"

In my head it sounds belligerent and accusatory. While the other form sounds polite.

This negative phrasing to induce a positive response, may be a Japan only thing?

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#165

Post by jimmaswell »

h4l wrote: post #155
boppo1 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>addressed your childhood trauma This is pretty frustrating as 90s-kid who had a Good Childhood™ and struggles with interpersonal issues. I have a close friend from childhood who also had quite a Good Childhood™ and he can't shut up about "trauma" and it seems like every two years he has this big epiphany about how he addressed some "trauma" he was previously repressing and how now that he's done so he's All Better N…

I think it's relative to our own experiences. If you drive on a perfect road, even a small bump is noticeable. But I don't think that means people's perception of problems is not legitimate. There's always someone worse off, especially if you compare now to historical times. If there's a sure-fire way to create a mental health problem, it's to tell yourself you don't deserve to have a problem because other people hav…

I always think of this SMBC strip.

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2011-07-22

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#166

Post by visitect »

Tronno wrote: post #8

I disagree with the way these behaviors are portrayed as a cultural dichotomy. To me, the author's examples all fall under ineffective communication. Their example of "ask culture" involves stoking resentment by making unreasonable requests. This can be avoided by practicing a little empathy. Ask questions, provide some basic context, and offer an escape hatch: "What are you busy with? I need X because Y. It's fine i…

This makes sense to me. I appreciate when somebody communicates their needs in a straightforward way, but also demonstrates an understanding that I might not be able (or willing) to accommodate them. I try to practice this when asking for help. Be clear, but empathetic. And I don't get angry if folks can't help, and remember that everybody has far more going in their lives than what I can see.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#167

Post by SeanAnderson »

I always liked explaining this concept in terms of Christmas.

There are people who value getting the right gifts, tell others verbally what they are interested in, and those people then buy those gifts. There is very little mindreading and magic, but the gifts almost assuredly are useful and loved.

There are people who value the magic of Christmas gifting. Telling others what to buy is nonsense because the point isn't the gifts themselves but the act of gifting. The joy is in seeing who got you a gift and what the gift says of your relationship dynamic.

Neither of these are wrong ways to approach Christmas, but you're kind of a jerk if you think your vision of Christmas is the only way.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#168

Post by daotoad »

gsuuon wrote: post #87
sneak wrote: post #51

> Deciding what to eat for dinner with guess-culture people isn’t as simple as asking people what they want to eat for dinner, because they will not tell you what they actually want to want to eat for dinner. They will say “oh, whatever you want,” or “whatever is easiest.” And when you insist that you really really want to know what they want to eat for dinner, and if it’s too much work, you’ll do something else inst…

Really interesting to see the other side - I wonder if sometimes the perception of 'high context' vs 'low context' is really just 'not my familiar context' vs 'my familiar context'. > Excuse me, ma’am. It seems to me that you’re in a hurry. I don’t know how long this line will take, however, I am reasonably certain that it will take the same amount of time for you to reach the head of it whether you stand 5, 1, or ze…

Speaking as an American the bit that seems over the top is the ""5, 1, or 0 meters" bit. It comes off as condescending. At least from another American. I've known a few Germans and this sort of comment seems much more acceptable to them. I think it's seen as "this is my reasoning, with it you can better evaluate the validity of my request".

Simply saying "please stop touching my luggage" is what I would expect. Adding any reasoning or explanation increases the emotional stakes and gives more places for people to infer subtext.

I appreciate the directness of simply backing your request with clear assertions as to why it is reasonable. Despite this, it does feel a bit odd to hear.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#169

Post by camel_gopher »

nostrademons wrote: post #72
carabiner wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds more like urban vs rural. The southerners I've known (Alabama) are pretty blunt about asking for what they want. Going further with stereotypes, some people say west coast is guess, east is ask.

"Going further with stereotypes, some people say west coast is guess, east is ask." My experience is the opposite. I grew up in New England, and it seemed like there were a large number of unspoken norms (in both business and personal culture) that were really hard to grok. Moving out to the Bay Area, people are refreshingly direct. "Want to come work for equity on my crypto startup?" "No, you're crazy." "Okay goodby…

Have you heard of the California no?

“Gee, that startup sounds cool. Let me get back to you.”

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#170

Post by lairv »

The article make it look binary when in reality everyone is guessing to a certain degree. No one has ever come up to me in the street and asked for $1000. Everyone is guessing up to a point, but when there's too much incertitude, some decide to ask while others think it's better not to
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