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Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’

cnn.com

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Re: Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’

#101

Post by traceroute66 »

spott wrote: post #100
traceroute66 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't pay with credit card (in 2023...), You need to either purchase a special card from a desk, or pay cash. In 2023 Erm, mate "in 2023" you can ALSO put a SUICA card on your phone's electronic wallet. ;-p Frankly, give me Japan's rail system any day of the week. You can get across Tokyo, with multiple changes, and plan your arrival to the minute. Try that in NYC, London or any other city ! And as for the Shin…

> You can get across Tokyo, with multiple changes, and plan your arrival to the minute. Except you can’t? You can know your arrival to the minute, but you can’t actually change it to the minute. Which isn’t actually that much more useful than other systems. Occasionally you will be able to rely on cutting it close by scheduling your ride to arrive right before an apt, but most of the time you are basically in the sam…

> Except you can’t? You can know your arrival to the minute, but you can’t actually change it to the minute.

I see the pedants have arrived.

I suspect you knew exactly what I meant. No further comment.

Re: Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’

#102

Post by SapporoChris »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #93
Xcelerate wrote: post #49

It's interesting that views on travel vary so much. Even in the U.S., it seems there are "travelers" and "non-travelers". I have been wanting to go to Japan since before the pandemic, so I asked some friends and family members if they want to go too. "Nah, I'm fine looking at photos. Plus 12 hours is a long time to sit on a plane." Long time?! That process used to take months . We Americans sit in office chairs and i…

The complaints about airports in this thread I also can’t relate to. The most damning thing people list is usually like, “the lines were long, i had to take off my shoes.” Patience is the best life hack you can make. With patience, you can go to an environment like an airport or trafficky road not harm you at all since you are indifferent. Think of all the people running around stressed out to various destinations wh…

Completely agree with the remarks on patience. I will add that the source of my patience tends to be being well rested. If I am well rested I am sympathetic to the mother with the crying child. If I lack rest then she is a terrible mother. Happily I am beginning to slowly recognize when my irritation is from lack of rest and that does help moderate the situation somewhat.

Re: Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’

#103

Post by spott »

traceroute66 wrote: post #101
spott wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can get across Tokyo, with multiple changes, and plan your arrival to the minute. Except you can’t? You can know your arrival to the minute, but you can’t actually change it to the minute. Which isn’t actually that much more useful than other systems. Occasionally you will be able to rely on cutting it close by scheduling your ride to arrive right before an apt, but most of the time you are basically in the sam…

> Except you can’t? You can know your arrival to the minute, but you can’t actually change it to the minute. I see the pedants have arrived. I suspect you knew exactly what I meant. No further comment.

I understand what you meant, my point is that it isn’t actually that valuable.

I was clarifying so that my point could be made. I’m sorry that it rubbed you the wrong way.

Re: Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’

#104

Post by _blz2 »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #80
wrp wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the objective(?) reality, but public perception. In my Japan days (1980s-90s), American companies were having a terrible time marketing their goods in Japan, because of the Japanese (often wrong) presumption that foreign goods were inferior. It's true there are inconveniences in Japanese life, but they are generally very predictable. What the Japanese hate is unpredictable inconveniences.

they are predictable because they grew up in japan. they just xenophobic -- literally the fear of the unknown.

ironically saying Japanese are xenophobic is xenophobic

Re: Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’

#105

Post by higeorge13 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #46
bombcar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is my understanding also, numerous internal destinations that are considered appropriate for various vacation lengths and prices; after all, airline prices get high when crossing the ocean.

I don't think prices are much of a barrier for visiting e.g. Korea. A flight between HND and ICN appears to cost about $120.

However same distance might be 50€ in some low cost european airline.

Re: Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’

#106

Post by fknorangesite »

weberer wrote: post #65
jalapenos wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "we" is Japan, no you don't.

Do you have any proof? I don't trust HN comments to talk about other countries vacation days, since I see too many people here say Americans get no vacation days, yet every company I've worked at in the USA offered 15-20 days.

> yet every company I've worked at in the USA offered 15-20 days.

Then you've been very fortunate. This is not representative of many people - ask anyone working in a restaurant or retail how much paid vacation they get.

Unlike many countries, in the USA the legal minimum is zero.

Re: Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’

#107

Post by usea »

weberer wrote: post #99
red-iron-pine wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15-20 days that usually included sick days, and with high levels of pressure NOT to take any of them. plus this is HN, so "every company I've ever worked for" is almost certainly a white collar STEM gig -- which ain't 90% of the country.

>that usually included sick days, and with high levels of pressure NOT to take any of them These are both also untrue based on my experience.

You owe it to yourself to better understand the plight of those around you. Your experiences are far outside of the norm in the US.

Re: Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’

#108

Post by zumu »

gadilif wrote: post #64
wrp wrote: post #27

It's the expected inconvenience. TFA points this out rather indirectly, but I've been hearing from Japanese for years that they are dissuaded from travel by the expected hassles of going to countries that run less smoothly than Japan (which is nearly any place).

I don't know. Personal opinion follows, YMMV: I've been to Tokyo recently. The subway system is much less convenient than, let's say, NYC. There are multiple operators, you need to purchase tickets separately to each one, it's not obvious for a tourist to understand the reasoning, and you can't pay with credit card (in 2023...), You need to either purchase a special card from a desk, or pay cash. In 2023. I consider…

> There are multiple operators

This is because there's just a lot more rail. Tokyo has 3x the density of stations (0.61 per mile vs 0.2) and 10x the amount of track (2929 miles vs 248) as NYC. Tokyo is just a much much bigger city.

> You need to either purchase a special card from a desk, or pay cash

Japan has been on the train card system for over 20 years. The same card works for all the operators. You can put it on your phone (if you have a Japanese phone). People don't use credit cards in Japan at nearly the same frequency we do in the West, so the train card acts as a debit card in a way.

Buying a card is slightly more inconvenient than using a contactless credit card, I'll give you that. But you get cleaner, safer more timely trains, way more stations, and way more destinations.

Re: Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’

#109

Post by anthonypasq »

logosmonkey wrote: post #78
gadilif wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Personal opinion follows, YMMV: I've been to Tokyo recently. The subway system is much less convenient than, let's say, NYC. There are multiple operators, you need to purchase tickets separately to each one, it's not obvious for a tourist to understand the reasoning, and you can't pay with credit card (in 2023...), You need to either purchase a special card from a desk, or pay cash. In 2023. I consider…

For the three weeks I was there in March I bought a suica card at the airport and never had to think about fairs for subway or buses for the rest of the the trip. I also used it to pay fir food at convienance stores and roadside stops. That seems pretty darn convenient to me.

i routinely needed to go to an atm to withdraw cash to load up my suica while i was there. I dont understand how the Japanese people find that acceptable.

Re: Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’

#110

Post by Am4TIfIsER0ppos »

gadilif wrote: post #64
wrp wrote: post #27

It's the expected inconvenience. TFA points this out rather indirectly, but I've been hearing from Japanese for years that they are dissuaded from travel by the expected hassles of going to countries that run less smoothly than Japan (which is nearly any place).

I don't know. Personal opinion follows, YMMV: I've been to Tokyo recently. The subway system is much less convenient than, let's say, NYC. There are multiple operators, you need to purchase tickets separately to each one, it's not obvious for a tourist to understand the reasoning, and you can't pay with credit card (in 2023...), You need to either purchase a special card from a desk, or pay cash. In 2023. I consider…

> or pay cash

Now that is a world class invention. A damn sight better than Amsterdam or Brussels that have done away with cash on public transport. You are required to pay for an rfid or nfc card in order to get through the barriers. No more complementary tickets with other things.

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