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Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

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Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#261

Post by johnnyanmac »

popcorncowboy wrote: post #206
taylodl wrote: post #61

Serious question - can governments put mandates on open source software? How would that work? How could it work?

Of course. Legislature can pass any laws it decides to. Open source software doesn't get some free-pass that allows it to dodge laws. Yes of course you can ignore, disagree and break laws. But they can and will come after you.

passing a law and enforcing it are entirely different matters. I don't think a law like this can feasibly be enforced. Especially when "open source" is not limited to a singe country.

And I don't think the US is extraditing anyone from Firefox over such a law.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#262

Post by johnnyanmac »

goodbyesf wrote: post #244
eigenket wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment feels a little conspiracy theory-ish. If a sufficiently big block of customers likes the idea of 'minority, lgbt and women's rights as you put it, they you're gonna see a bunch of companies trying to present themselves in a way that if favorable to that block.

> This comment feels a little conspiracy theory-ish. Is conspiracy theory-ish code for true or obvious? Strange how 'conspiracy theory' ad hominems became popular recently. > If a sufficiently big block of customers likes the idea of 'minority, lgbt and women's rights as you put it, they you're gonna see a bunch of companies trying to present themselves in a way that if favorable to that block. Playing dumb I see. Th…

>The country is majority christian and white.

the country, yes. The world demographic of people who use your product, no.

>all commercials should be christian themed and advocate for whites.

and many commercials aimed at an older audiience, e.g. cable TV, do focus on this. Are we also playing dumb on the generational gap in technology, demographics using online media, and their ideaology?

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#263

Post by johnnyanmac »

aaaaarrrrrfffff wrote: post #225
smolder wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangential, but, nowadays there are many digital spaces where saying "its not ok to hate cis white men" will get you a chorus of people saying "yes it is", followed by the boot.

Very tangential. Those sorts of spaces do exist, and likewise pockets of racism, homophobia, transphobia, and misogeny all exist too. Hating cis white men for existing isn't something that should be acceptable, and death threats are never okay. And there are stressors that they do face - the suffering of others does not invalidate your own. But at the same time, there are also plenty of spaces mocking and belittling…

>if a trans woman is talking about how a cute guy she was talking to at a bar stalked her and tried to beat her after she mentioned that she is trans, and someone chooses that moment to say that it's not okay to hate cis white men, it just comes across as intentionally uncaring

With all due respect, there is a growing trend of loneliness among this generation of young men[0] and these topics are constantly dismissed and blamed on the men. I understand your intent, but empahty over the dating scene is probaly one of the worst examples to give to a male audience. It's expecting empathy from a subject they never give empathy from so what would you expect?

>Now this isn't to say that these communities don't take it too far on their own. There are some which engage in doxxing, death threats, and all sorts of terrible behavior, but those communities are not the whole majority, just as the racist, transphobic, misogynistic and homophobic groups aren't the whole of cis white men. In both cases, those groups simply are the loudest.

but you also just said that minority threats are more legitmate, so even you seem to have some semblance of believing the loud groups that oppress them.

[0]: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-yo...

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#264

Post by Am4TIfIsER0ppos »

myko wrote: post #26
Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote: post #19

I thought they wanted "more than deplatforming" https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/we-need-more-than-deplat... https://archive.today/ia2z4

Everything in that blog post looks reasonable, unlike what France is looking to do

Mozilla wants to stop "disinformation". France's excuse of fraud doesn't exactly overlap but what is fraud other than disinformation with a goal of direct monetary gain? Mozilla also don't say who will be the ultimate arbiter so France is answering.

Mozilla want transparency of how bad things are dealt with and France is giving a clear list and telling them how to do it. Exactly the same way as Mozilla celebrates by ensuring nobody can see the bad thing.

This may sound like I support what France is proposing. I don't. However I'm not French so I don't get a say. I thoroughly enjoy the hypocrisy of Mozilla's statements on these matters. "Stop Bad Things." "No not like that!"

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#265

Post by anthk »

stackedinserter wrote: post #240
anthk wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without the old browser you woudn't have modern browsers. Oh, btw, FFMPEG add Qemu came from a French.

Without Arabic numbers you wouldn't have modern programming => arabs invented JavaScript.

Your comment it's idiocy and you know it. The browser with the HTTP protocol and the HTML markup language (sorry for the redundance) came from Europe. Period. Everything else has been extensions of top. Worse, a good chunk of codec technology (FFMPEG) came from Europe, too. So without FFMPEG and the browser itself you wouldn't do shit, you would be trapped with Gopher licenses from Minessota. And, that's ironic, because today as an European I love Gopher and Gemini (since ~2007 with the SDF reborn) and I hate the bloated, DRM enabled web.

BTW, on the comment of the Airbus on the thread, I repeat, YOU, the Americans, created the airplanes, and not the other way around. Modern plane tech it's irrelevant without the original creation.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#266

Post by barrysteve »

londons_explore wrote: post #140
_trackno5 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, we can all agree that this narrow use is in the interest of the public. Emphasis on narrow. It’s completely unreasonable to have a broad scope direct communication channel between the government and my browser or OS.

My government (UK) seems to struggle with communicating some things with citizens. There is no way so send a simple short message to every citizen. For example, recently the law changed so that pedestrians had priority at 't' road junctions without traffic lights. Ideally, every citizen would be send a small infographic showing the new law on the day it became law. They would click "okay" and go on with their day. In…

You really think it's ideal to get new binding laws through text messages?

Don't look at your phone in the next five minutes, because Russia's invaded France and your iPhone goes ding.

Both you and me have been legally volunteered for conscription "at random".

And I wonder who's sons and daughters are magically missing from the man-power database, certainly not the engineers and politicians who built it. could never suggest such a thing is likely...

Bring it on, I say.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#267

Post by anthk »

FrenchDevRemote wrote: post #259
micadep wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France is not a planned economy in the Soviet Union style, and we are in a privatisation trend. But the state still has a huge role in the economy and a history of interventionism in the private sector. More than most European countries. I have no knowledge of the worst American cities, but saying that Marseille's worst neighborhoods are "chill" and "The streets are pretty safe" is pure madness.

I grew up in Marseille worst neighborhoods. There are dozens of worst places around SF, LA, NYC, Chicago. There are no crackheads in Marseille. 100x less guns than in any American city.

This. In Spain, the Marseille's counterpark (shitty urban black hole) would be the 3000 viviendas (3000 homes) in Seville, or maybe some barrack based 'hood in Madrid far in the downtown.

And even with that, I would be safer if I kept a low profile with my head down and by not getting into troubles and by avoiding some taverns. Try that at the worst places of any big city in the US.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#268

Post by goodbyesf »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #262
goodbyesf wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This comment feels a little conspiracy theory-ish. Is conspiracy theory-ish code for true or obvious? Strange how 'conspiracy theory' ad hominems became popular recently. > If a sufficiently big block of customers likes the idea of 'minority, lgbt and women's rights as you put it, they you're gonna see a bunch of companies trying to present themselves in a way that if favorable to that block. Playing dumb I see. Th…

>The country is majority christian and white. the country, yes. The world demographic of people who use your product, no. >all commercials should be christian themed and advocate for whites. and many commercials aimed at an older audiience, e.g. cable TV, do focus on this. Are we also playing dumb on the generational gap in technology, demographics using online media, and their ideaology?

> the country, yes. The world demographic of people who use your product, no.

But the ads are target to the people in the country. Besides, the world at large is far more anti-lgbt, anti-women's rights and anti-woke than the bizarro world USA we've turned ourselves into. Are you seriously suggesting these companies are peddling pro-lgbt and women's rights propaganda advertisements to win over muslims, africans, indians, chinese, south americans, etc?

Crazy how when you refuse to accept reality, how you have to form insane contradictions after contradictions...

> and many commercials aimed at an older audiience, e.g. cable TV, do focus on this.

No they do not. That's the point.

> Are we also playing dumb on the generational gap in technology, demographics using online media, and their ideaology?

Who is talking about online media. Besides, even after insane brainwashing the younger generation isn't as 'woke' as you think they are. Sure, there are differences between generations, but people are ultimately people. But this has nothing to do with what we are talking about does it?

How dumb does one have to be to think that the american companies are creating lgbt ads for american audiences to win over saudis?

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#269

Post by RugnirViking »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #72

I'd wish people would not through the word "censor" around that casually. Take a deeper look into e.G. cold war Eastern European countries to see what censorship is.

is not a government provided blacklist of certain newspapers /books/websites you are not allowed to read that they can update at any time at least a little concerning?

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#270

Post by bombolo »

pmontra wrote: post #223
bombolo wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we can all agree that french revolution values are much better than whatever crap the rest of europe was pushing?

Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité: yes. What actually happened, the Terror and an Emperor: no.

I mean, study some history… with the emperor they still fared much better than before. Which is why they loved the emperor.

But I understand that the anglosaxon history might be a bit biased and edited.

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