Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 200 posts

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#111

Post by wink »

the_common_man wrote: post #6

> Germany has liberalised its immigration rules, but the visa process is still glacial and the system favours refugees over professionals who might want to settle in the country. A big issue for professionals to move is they have to learn German.

Yeah it sucks, I basically only know programmers who can get by living here without speaking German.

But honestly, in which countries is that really different? The only ones I remember stories about would be the Netherlands and Sweden, but also only if you're living in a big city and not in a small town. Obviously I'm leaving out the countries where their main language is English already and assuming you speak English. And Spain if you come from a Spanish-speaking country, and France if you come from a French-speaking country... but overall I just think that this is the default?

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#112

Post by the_common_man »

prisoner3986 wrote: post #32
the_common_man wrote: post #6

> Germany has liberalised its immigration rules, but the visa process is still glacial and the system favours refugees over professionals who might want to settle in the country. A big issue for professionals to move is they have to learn German.

Uh hu big thing. Hint: if you want to live in a different country, you should at least try to somewhat adapt the official language spoken, and also somewhat have a sweet spot for its culture. Otherwise, you are mostly just coming for economic reasons, and countries don't need that. As someone else complained beforehand: the public health system is already strained, the influx of illegals, refugees and other immigrant…

It takes time to adapt to a language and culture. You can't expect this before entering Germany. A professional is taking a chance with Germany, they are not refugees . Germany needs to be welcoming, it's not all 1 way traffic. Germany is not in a position to attract world's professionals acting this way

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#113

Post by the_common_man »

jeroenvlek wrote: post #10
the_common_man wrote: post #6

> Germany has liberalised its immigration rules, but the visa process is still glacial and the system favours refugees over professionals who might want to settle in the country. A big issue for professionals to move is they have to learn German.

Agree in principle, but younger people do speak English a lot better and in cities like Berlin or Hamburg it's an even lower barrier.

These are not the people you meet in public sector and services

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#114

Post by the_common_man »

2-718-281-828 wrote: post #72
fhd2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German with an expat partner, I'd say this depends very much. If you're working for consumer facing startups - sure. There's tons of those in Berlin and plenty in the other big cities (Germany is quite decentral). But if you want to settle a bit on the outskirts of even the big cities, it is a lot easier to understand at least some. I'd say 50% of the people we randomly interact with can hold a conversation in E…

there is no non english speaking country in the world where you could expect that to be easier.

You are missing the point. Are other countrkes expecting professionals to move and help them out?

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#115

Post by bgdam »

coffe2mug wrote: post #103
cinntaile wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is disrespectful about voicing his opinion on things that he considers broken or in need of much improvement? It is entirely possible that German people are too complacent or privileged to see all the issues that he mentions.

> thread with genuine complaints will be drowned in responses from native Germans who foolishly believe that Germany is a great country to live in because t This is disrespect. Complaining the system is OK but not attacking people. Assume some one just says "All native Indian men are involved in harassing women/girls (incl. r-a-p.e)"

Would replacing the word "foolish" with "naive" be better? Because that's what I intended to convey. Bad choice of words there.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#116

Post by iiiieu »

bgdam wrote: post #75
rockyj wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is just your experience. You say as if things in India are all bed of roses. No major city in India (forget small towns) can boast of breathable air, manageable traffic, potable water from the tap or 24 hours of electricity. Women's safety - lol. Finding a place where there is a clean lake or some non-polluted piece of nature - forget that in North India. Not to mention as a minority, who knows when you can be l…

> People come here, reek of privilege, miss their life in India where they had 3 servants for everything and also forget that if they have to go to any government office in India they have to pay bribes. Unfortunately these are the exact people that Germany wants moving into their country - because they're the one's who pay the high taxes. Do you think Germany is throwing open their doors for the underprivileged folk…

> Unfortunately these are the exact people that Germany wants moving into their country - because they're the one's who pay the high taxes.

Not sure about that. The ideal immigrant to a country is young and well educated. Through labour, they will contribute immensely to society and pay top income tax.

In constrast, some rich people who park their wealth in offshore tax heavens and live off passive income don't contribute much, beyond rising real estate prices.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#117

Post by iiiieu »

babaguru wrote: post #106
bgdam wrote: post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

I'm an immigrant in India. There is curry everywhere. Everybody eats it, everybody smells like it. I hate curry. The smell, the taste, I could vomit every time. But the worst part of all this is - the vast majority of Indians think this is all acceptable and okay. If I hadn't already invested so much time, money and energy into this god forsaken country, I'd be out of here in a heartbeat.

Considering the downvotes, you probably forgot the "/s".

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#118

Post by 2-718-281-828 »

the_common_man wrote: post #114
2-718-281-828 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is no non english speaking country in the world where you could expect that to be easier.

You are missing the point. Are other countrkes expecting professionals to move and help them out?

stay here for a year. then go visit your home country india and then read again what you write here. won't have aged well. almost everybody coming to germany complains about all sorts of stuff. after about a year they can't leave anymore.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#119

Post by glimshe »

bgdam wrote: post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

I live in the US and every other day I see a HN thread saying how America is terrible and how Europe is so much better than here. At the same time, you also see a lot more Europeans coming to the US than the other way around. The reality is that no place is perfect, the grass is always greener on the other side and the US, despite its problems, is a pretty darn good place to live.

By the way, I have many friends from South America who moved to Europe just to move back a couple of years later with stories very similar to what you are saying.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#120

Post by bgdam »

iiiieu wrote: post #117
babaguru wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an immigrant in India. There is curry everywhere. Everybody eats it, everybody smells like it. I hate curry. The smell, the taste, I could vomit every time. But the worst part of all this is - the vast majority of Indians think this is all acceptable and okay. If I hadn't already invested so much time, money and energy into this god forsaken country, I'd be out of here in a heartbeat.

Considering the downvotes, you probably forgot the "/s".

Even with the /s it's a paltry attempt at belittling real issues. I didn't complain that Germany was full of beer and everybody ate bread and the smell of bakeries was suffocating.
Post reply on HN