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How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

charity.wtf

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Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#181

Post by jstarfish »

lastangryman wrote: post #174

> Say “please” and “thank you” a lot. I remember a previous role the team leaders all went on a management training course. Everyone came back and started adding "please" to every request. I found it really patronising and felt like I was being spoken to like a 5 year old. > "Can you run the SQL update in prod?" Vs > "Can you run the SQL update in prod please?" The "please" sounds like an exasperated parent that is f…

Bioshock gave me the idea, but I find "would you kindly..." goes over a lot better.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#182

Post by vasco »

glonq wrote: post #2

How timely. My boss just crucified a co-worker today in our meeting and I think something like this could help mend things. Yes, my boss never heard of " praise in public criticize in private ". Welcome to working with a hot-blooded eastern european

Nobody should be crucified either in public or in private. But correcting mistakes and making it explicit to the whole team what the problem was and how we'll minimize the chances of reocurring is best done in front of the team. Everyone learns together, and most importantly, they see how you react to mistakes. They won't be afraid to talk about their mistakes if they see your normal reaction. It'll also feel less bad because now everyone is aware that everyone makes one every once in a while.

Create a culture where nothing is a personal attack and performance is just what it is, instead of something to be ashamed of.

In school all the kids get all their grades publicly, you don't get public grades if you do good and private grades if you do bad on the exam. And somehow we're all here and understood that it was what it was. The problem is that it was done as a "crucification".

Shouting and blaming and being an ass to someone are wrong to do either in private or in public.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#184

Post by donw »

ako wrote: post #171
notnaut wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it is. Fucking up is part of a job. If you’re working 9-5 on the clock, you don’t have to fix shit after 5. Choosing to stick around to fix your mistake off hours without pay when you could do it the next day or take comp time later is a sacrifice of your time/money.

If I hire someone to work on my house and they fuck up, e.g., hit a water or gas pipe, I expect them to fix it asap, with no additional pay. Fucking up is not part of the job if you’re doing the hiring…… Happened to me once, long time ago, I was cleaning up an oracle db production server, and by accident deleted to system datafile of the database. Sat there till midnight to fix it, but at least I had proof the backup…

No.

This highlights one of the key differences between owners and employees.

Employees are not nominally liable for mistakes they make while employed, excepting things like gross negligence or malicious behavior.

If an employee makes a mistake, forcing them to work "off the clock" to fix that mistake is a violation of labor law in pretty much every jurisdiction of which I am aware.

An employee could volunteer to do so, but frankly, as a "boss" myself, I would neither expect nor accept such a gesture.

Mistakes happen. It's part of the cost of doing business, and if you're a competent businessman, you factor that in. What I expect is that that employee won't make the same mistake again.

But I have and will never expect someone to work without being paid as agreed.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#185

Post by politelemon »

byteware wrote: post #179
lastangryman wrote: post #174

> Say “please” and “thank you” a lot. I remember a previous role the team leaders all went on a management training course. Everyone came back and started adding "please" to every request. I found it really patronising and felt like I was being spoken to like a 5 year old. > "Can you run the SQL update in prod?" Vs > "Can you run the SQL update in prod please?" The "please" sounds like an exasperated parent that is f…

yes, coworkers thanking me for a bugfix or a feature bothers the hell out of me. man I am not doing it for you, I am doing it for money that is thanks enough

That isn't the same thing. Your efforts can still be appreciated as it will have had had a positive impact on them. They're merely expressing it, which is something people do. After all, if everyone assumed the attitude in your last sentence, it would make for a highly unpleasant environment overall and make work a lot more stressful.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#186

Post by rcbdev »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #183
yread wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Finland now Eastern Europe? More like Kurwa management.

Poland is typically regarded as Central Europe.

By whom?

Czechs (wholly western to Poland) are always called "Eastern Europeans" in contemporary media and or any place I have ever worked before.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#187

Post by _0ffh »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #183
yread wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Finland now Eastern Europe? More like Kurwa management.

Poland is typically regarded as Central Europe.

Depends if you go for geographical location or the iron curtain east/west distinction, which is still used by many and culturally relevant.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#188

Post by its_a_random_ac »

Pretty good overall, except for a nit pick:

> Person B: “…. Hey, sorry to interrupt, but the story in my head is that you think owning that number is part of my job, and now you’re upset with me, or you think I’m incompetent at my job.”

Depending on the exact phrasing and group and company dynamics, I'd be worried a bit by saying something like this because Person A might think I'm trying to push off work or responsibility for some metric that I'm tangentially responsible for.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#189

Post by blackkettle »

its_a_random_ac wrote: post #188

Pretty good overall, except for a nit pick: > Person B: “…. Hey, sorry to interrupt, but the story in my head is that you think owning that number is part of my job, and now you’re upset with me, or you think I’m incompetent at my job.” Depending on the exact phrasing and group and company dynamics, I'd be worried a bit by saying something like this because Person A might think I'm trying to push off work or responsi…

Same thing with “try to sound friendly.” Please and thank you are essential. But there are few things I hate more than cloying emails that start with “Hi!” (the exclamation point is the problem) and emoji are definitely worse.

Being polite is professional and shows mutual respect; IMO it implies an intention to build trust.

Affecting the trappings of friendliness or even loose intimacy in a professional setting or any setting where the relationship is in a rough spot has a strong chance of coming off as disingenuous.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#190

Post by felurx »

winternewt wrote: post #176
lastangryman wrote: post #174

> Say “please” and “thank you” a lot. I remember a previous role the team leaders all went on a management training course. Everyone came back and started adding "please" to every request. I found it really patronising and felt like I was being spoken to like a 5 year old. > "Can you run the SQL update in prod?" Vs > "Can you run the SQL update in prod please?" The "please" sounds like an exasperated parent that is f…

When people use a lot of emojis, the story in my head is that they care more about keeping appearances up than about honesty and transparency. It's fake positivity.

Then tell them that! Give them the feedback they need so they can know how to communicate with you better. (Talking about person-to-person relationships, of course)

In the end, this is a matter of taste. Just because something works for someone, it doesn't mean that it will work for everyone. But also: Just because something fails to work for someone, it doesn't mean that it will fail to work fo everyone.

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