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Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

foundation.mozilla.org

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Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#251

Post by dragonwriter »

advisedwang wrote: post #243
stainablesteel wrote: post #173

There's no basis for blocking a web browser that doesn't comply. If Mozilla came out and said "nah", what exactly would the french government do? ban that web browser? demand every website accessed via france check if someone is running a banned web browser? the absurdity would spiral out of control on its own, it seems best to ignore this so that the europeans can take an official L on regulating web content.

I don't know French law, but some options: * Arrest Mozilla officials if they travel to France * Seize or prevent donations made in France * Seize or prevent the Google-search-is-the-default for French portion of queries * Use international venues like WTO to get a judgment enforceable in the US

> * Use international venues like WTO to get a judgment enforceable in the US

That’s not what the WTO does.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#252

Post by Zuiii »

justin66 wrote: post #53
kgwxd wrote: post #42

How can France force them? Just don’t do it.

This petition, and the Mozilla blog post someone linked to upthread, are designed to make it look like Mozilla did everything they could prior to capitulating. Of course it's dumb. They should just say they won't do it. Presumably their desire to continue operating in France is a lot stronger than their dedication to the principles involved and that is why they are taking this approach.

The only reason to spend resources supporting this abandoned browser is because it claims to stand up for our rights. The day it stops is the day supporting it becomes meaningless.

Mozilla made a lot of stupid decisions in the past but if they do this, I'm finally dropping firefox when I test my sites.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#254

Post by maxwell »

stefncb wrote: post #144
maxwell wrote: post #37

Petition? Mozilla should just ban usage in France if they pass this merd.

And what would that do, exactly? The government wouldn't care. In fact, they would probably be better off for it because everyone would simply switch to Chrome and there's one less browser to deal with. The only thing you'll do is make the problem worse and take away choice from the French people who want nothing to do with this bs.

I'm saying they update their terms to prohibit compliance with censorship (specifically defined in line with the French bill's text), not impose geo restrictions or attempt legal enforcement.

Building out censorship functionality doesn't really seem viable for Firefox's future worldwide.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#256

Post by ElFitz »

petre wrote: post #231
ElFitz wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The GP in question is a generic ramble about distaste for current government. For the last 4 presidents and their ~15 governments (20 years), both "left" and "right". But I agree said rambling remains quite generic nonetheless.

The current président de la République managed to trigger protests and strikes that are only rivaled by the '86/87 student riots. The yellow vest protest almost had the potential to turn into another May '68 style event. It almost always begins with police killing a French citizen of Algerian origin or by messing up with the fuel prices. Hollande was a total disaster and Sarkozy is a 2x convict by now, no need to say…

That wasn’t my point and doesn’t change anything about GP’s own merits or lack thereof.

I was actually trying to show it does have some merit by pointing out that, despite being generic, said ramble targets all the governments we’ve had over the last 20 years, and thus shouldn’t be so easily dismissed.

The conclusion was me playing nice by finding some common ground with the person I was replying to.

That’s all.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#257

Post by eigenket »

goodbyesf wrote: post #244
eigenket wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment feels a little conspiracy theory-ish. If a sufficiently big block of customers likes the idea of 'minority, lgbt and women's rights as you put it, they you're gonna see a bunch of companies trying to present themselves in a way that if favorable to that block.

> This comment feels a little conspiracy theory-ish. Is conspiracy theory-ish code for true or obvious? Strange how 'conspiracy theory' ad hominems became popular recently. > If a sufficiently big block of customers likes the idea of 'minority, lgbt and women's rights as you put it, they you're gonna see a bunch of companies trying to present themselves in a way that if favorable to that block. Playing dumb I see. Th…

I'm not American, nor do I live in America, so my understanding of US culture is far from perfect, but from what I've seen it does appear that the vast majority of products, commercials and content in the US are aimed at white Christians. Pretty much everything I know from the USA is built around the primacy of white Christians.

You guys literally say "one nation under god", in the pledge of allegiance you say in schools and at the start of congressional sessions (according to wikipeida) and your money says "in god we trust" on it.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#258

Post by denton-scratch »

afavour wrote: post #194
denton-scratch wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no way so send a simple short message to every citizen. 1. Not every citizen possesses an SMS-capable device. 2. Many smartphone-enabled citizens don't want to be nagged by the government. > Instead, the government bought up TV ads and billboards across the country I don't watch TV ads. I haven't seen any of these billboards. And I didn't know there was anything unusual about the law on T-junctions in part…

Are you not entirely proving the OPs point? A law has been changed regarding right of way and you’re not aware of it, potentially leaving you more likely to strike a pedestrian. Does that not highlight a failure of communication?

> potentially leaving you more likely to strike a pedestrian

Well, not really. I don't own a car, and I haven't driven one for years.

But that's to ignore your point, which is that I'm ignorant of the law. Thing is, that's far from the only law I'm ignorant of; if every little change in the law had to be notified to all citizens via SMS, that channel would become so clogged as to be useless (nobody would check their messages).

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#259

Post by FrenchDevRemote »

micadep wrote: post #175
FrenchDevRemote wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France is really far from a planned economy. Marseille's worst neighborhoods are really chill compared to the bad parts of any American city. The streets are pretty safe. Your comment is kinda ridiculous, stop watching TV. Yeah there are lot of taxes, but those taxes come in handy when you can get 2 years of unemployment benefits when starting a company. Or when you know, get a cancer that would cost a few millions t…

France is not a planned economy in the Soviet Union style, and we are in a privatisation trend. But the state still has a huge role in the economy and a history of interventionism in the private sector. More than most European countries. I have no knowledge of the worst American cities, but saying that Marseille's worst neighborhoods are "chill" and "The streets are pretty safe" is pure madness.

I grew up in Marseille worst neighborhoods.

There are dozens of worst places around SF, LA, NYC, Chicago. There are no crackheads in Marseille. 100x less guns than in any American city.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#260

Post by johnnyanmac »

ElFitz wrote: post #64
junaru wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then don't try to put discredit to the saying of an insider. The GP in question is a generic ramble about distaste for current government. You can apply that for each and every country - there's not one where citizens are happy with their leaders. And if this flies for 'insider knowledge' in France you really are f**d and, its not because of the government.

> The GP in question is a generic ramble about distaste for current government. For the last 4 presidents and their ~15 governments (20 years), both "left" and "right". But I agree said rambling remains quite generic nonetheless.

>But I agree said rambling remains quite generic nonetheless.

That's what makes it sound like noise. If you took "france" out of the sentence I wouldn't be able to tell which country this is talking about. US, Canada, UK, China, Japan? It's like the fortune reading of government criticism.

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