I don't get how this would ever work, apart from preinstalled/precompiled or proprietary browsers? Just grab a copy from another country, or someone can create a script to download the source code, patch out the offending censor code and then compile the browser from source - it's not like it's hard to install dev tools anymore. Or even just distribute the uncensored binaries. Chromium and Firefox are both open-source.
Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites
211–220 of 276 posts
Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
> government being able to mandate that a certain website not open at all on a browser/system is uncharted territory and even the most repressive regimes in the world prefer to block websites further up the network (ISPs, etc.) so far. Repressive government's don't do their blocking at the browser level because it is completely ineffective. Anyone who wants to access the forbidden websites will be able to do so anywa…
I can confirm. The French government censors websites by forcing ISPs to delist stuff from their DNS servers. It's trivial to bypass simply by setting alternative DNS providers like Cloudflare.
And not even all ISPs, only the few most popular ones. Even if that's probably 96% of internet users, that looks like the law does not treat all citizens equally.
Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's the context: the fr gov's been acting against national interest for more than 20 years in a row. The people know it. The gov knows the people know. The gov wants to pretend it's not doing anything wrong. It could keep pretending credibly, if only people would keep their trap shut on the web. So now gov wants to control what people can see and say on the web.
You need to give some serious references for that.
Here's one: Macron, Alstom, General Electric.
Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites
#214I don't get how this would ever work, apart from preinstalled/precompiled or proprietary browsers? Just grab a copy from another country, or someone can create a script to download the source code, patch out the offending censor code and then compile the browser from source - it's not like it's hard to install dev tools anymore. Or even just distribute the uncensored binaries. Chromium and Firefox are both open-sourc…
It doesn't need to be 100% effective, it just needs to be inconvenient enough that most users don't bother
Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think simply modifying the hosts file on a machine to "rename" the domain of the site you want to visit would be sufficient to bypass a browser-level block.
The browser must send a request with a Host header with the correct site name or the server will 404 it. What could work is a local proxy server that translates the host name in the request. It must MITM the https requests though.
What we want or would end up with is a Firefox plugin to toggle a boolean.
Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites
#216As far as I understand it, this is only about implementing a blocklist for scam and phishing sites, like what Edge's SmartScreen already does. The agency in charge of this, Arcom, will have to comply to that requirement. While the principle in itself isn't great, this isn't as bad as Mozilla or comments on HN make it look like.
Isn't the issue though that such laws are usually abused so a website spreading "misinformation/fake news" about the government is labelled a "scam"...?
Well, look at the EU level https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/07/nternational-rights-gr...
Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites
#217I don't get how this would ever work, apart from preinstalled/precompiled or proprietary browsers? Just grab a copy from another country, or someone can create a script to download the source code, patch out the offending censor code and then compile the browser from source - it's not like it's hard to install dev tools anymore. Or even just distribute the uncensored binaries. Chromium and Firefox are both open-sourc…
I'm not sure any method of censorship is considered on the basis it's 100% effective or not. The kinds of things you listed are additional hurdles most people either won't know or won't bother to deal with for all but the most extreme types of censorship (e.g. blocking something like Facebook or YouTube wholesale).
Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s absurd that an article exists to allow French govt agents to display messages in my browser. How is that even enforced?
Rules exist to require messages be shown on phones - for example the emergency alert system for hurricanes. Doesn't seem unreasonable that computer OS's and/or web browsers be required to support the same.
> Doesn't seem unreasonable that computer OS's and/or web browsers be required to support the same.
Why?
Web browsers were designed from the start to show you only content you expressly requested. Notification APIs are still opt-in. A browser is primarily pull-oriented, whereas a phone was always bi-directional. Inverting this expectation for the browser is very much unwelcome.
Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well if majority votes for them, it's important to respect the choice of the voters, even if you don't like their choice because you have other interests that you want to defend. The opposition in France are far from being angels, it's very similar to Democrats vs Republican situation in France (except Gauche vs Droite).
What limits are you willing to place on this? Majorities can and do vote for monsters.
Not only that, it's common to have a ballot that only presents a choice between two monsters. It's your fault if you vote for one and it's your fault if you stay home. Maybe the problem is systemic?
Checks and balances that get eroded during populist waves, stay that way when the monster comes.
Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, we can all agree that this narrow use is in the interest of the public. Emphasis on narrow. It’s completely unreasonable to have a broad scope direct communication channel between the government and my browser or OS.
My government (UK) seems to struggle with communicating some things with citizens. There is no way so send a simple short message to every citizen. For example, recently the law changed so that pedestrians had priority at 't' road junctions without traffic lights. Ideally, every citizen would be send a small infographic showing the new law on the day it became law. They would click "okay" and go on with their day. In…
> For example, recently the law changed so that pedestrians had priority at 't' road junctions without traffic lights.
That's hardly a backwards-incompatible change that needs to be actioned immediately.
My attention has already been torn to shreds for years via smartphone usage (I'm in an on-and-off recovery). I don't need the government adding their two pence into what's already a bad situation.
If they care so much, mail me. Physically. That both gets my attention, lets the government constant me via a much less intrusive channel, and staves off the bankruptcy of Royal Mail.