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Hawaii governor vows to block land grabs as fire-ravaged Maui rebuilds

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Re: Hawaii governor vows to block land grabs as fire-ravaged Maui rebuilds

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a human right? How does that work?

Every human has a right to enslave three other humans and force them to build a house. When a house is finished they have to be released though to prevent infringing of their own human rights.

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Re: Hawaii governor vows to block land grabs as fire-ravaged Maui rebuilds

#32
post #19

It almost as if housing is a human right and not an investment opportunity for the wealthy to exploit.

Nothing that requires the labor of others is a human right. That's not how rights work.

It's important to distinguish negative rights (the state cannot do X to you) from positive rights (the state is required to have X happen for you).

There is a school of thought that says the latter is not really valid, since it may (or eventually will) be that some negative rights be violated to make it happen.

Re: Hawaii governor vows to block land grabs as fire-ravaged Maui rebuilds

#33
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing that requires the labor of others is a human right. That's not how rights work.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 25: > Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. https:/…

I think the comment above yours is referring to 'natural' rights which are generally negative (i.e., no one can take them away from you). If anything can become a right simply via declaration or popular vote, can 60% of a country's population vote themselves the right to the property of the 40%? By that logic, the Nazis had a right to exterminate the Jews because the Nazis were democratically elected.

I understand wanting to protect Hawaii's heritage, etc. but landowners should be free to sell the property to whosoever they deem fit, at whatever price.

Re: Hawaii governor vows to block land grabs as fire-ravaged Maui rebuilds

#34

It's become a philosophical kind of question, eh? What is Hawaii, what should Hawaii be in the future. One vision is that it stays the way it is forever, becoming a "nature preserve" of a human settlement. Another vision which I suspect they're trying to avoid is "a limited resource monopolized entirely by the rich". The 2nd vision may well have happened over a longer time scale as families slowly get priced out and…

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Re: Hawaii governor vows to block land grabs as fire-ravaged Maui rebuilds

#35
post #32
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing that requires the labor of others is a human right. That's not how rights work.

It's important to distinguish negative rights (the state cannot do X to you) from positive rights (the state is required to have X happen for you). There is a school of thought that says the latter is not really valid, since it may (or eventually will) be that some negative rights be violated to make it happen.

Yes, I was reading Bastiat (The Law) a while ago and he made a point that struck me: the state can't enforce positive (philanthropic) rights (i.e., you are entitled to this and that) without violating a natural right.

For the state to enforce a citizen's philanthropic right to some stuff, the have to dispossess someone else of it - after all, the state can't produce anything, it can only expropriate what's been produced.

Re: Hawaii governor vows to block land grabs as fire-ravaged Maui rebuilds

#36
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing that requires the labor of others is a human right. That's not how rights work.

Legal rights can be created by passing laws. It’s possible to pass a law giving people a right to payment by the government (for example, a pension). Such payments can be used to buy goods and services that take labor as an input.

That's more correctly called an "entitlement" rather than a "right", IMO.

Re: Hawaii governor vows to block land grabs as fire-ravaged Maui rebuilds

#37
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing that requires the labor of others is a human right. That's not how rights work.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 25: > Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. https:/…

Just because it's written on a document titled "Human Rights" doesn't make it so. The UN UDHR is really just a wish list of things that would be nice to have in any country. It is emphatically not a well thought-out legal document that would form the basis of a a country's laws.

Read about the recent Chilean constitution reform for what happens when people try to write a constitution based on things that would be nice to have, without seriously considering all of the nth-degree complexities that would result if those nice things were to actually be put into reality with the might of the state.

Re: Hawaii governor vows to block land grabs as fire-ravaged Maui rebuilds

#38
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not democracy when Governor decides, it would be democracy if citizens of burned city vote.

You are technically correct, which is the best kind of correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy > Representative democracy, also known as indirect democracy, is a type of democracy where elected people represent a group of people, in contrast to direct democracy. Nearly all modern Western-style democracies function as some type of representative democracy.

Representative democracy would be there if major of the burned city makes the decision.

Re: Hawaii governor vows to block land grabs as fire-ravaged Maui rebuilds

#39
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing that requires the labor of others is a human right. That's not how rights work.

It's hard to say that surplus wealth generated by the labor of others should be directed towards investor/owner profits, but not towards housing for workers. The difference between these two outcomes is a policy decision.

If we're talking about housing for workers specifically, Hawaii ranks near dead-last on land-use freedom[0] among the fifty states; meaning that the state as a whole is like the San Francisco Bay Area, being very difficult to build housing to match demand[1].

This, too, is a policy decision, and fixing this one is both easier and would result in a more sustainable long-term wealth growth, compared to the state forcing the direction of the "surplus wealth" of economic endeavors.

[0]: https://cdn.freedominthe50states.org/download/2021/onesheet/...

[1]: https://www.mauinews.com/news/local-news/2022/04/uhero-hawai...

Re: Hawaii governor vows to block land grabs as fire-ravaged Maui rebuilds

#40
post #32
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing that requires the labor of others is a human right. That's not how rights work.

It's important to distinguish negative rights (the state cannot do X to you) from positive rights (the state is required to have X happen for you). There is a school of thought that says the latter is not really valid, since it may (or eventually will) be that some negative rights be violated to make it happen.

Like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_parasitism_(offense)
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