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Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

foundation.mozilla.org

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Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#141

Post by pmontra »

bombolo wrote: post #60
WeylandYutani wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France has always been pretty bad at running an economy. Ofcourse for the rest of Europe this is a good thing- French military ambitions have been consistently sabotaged by this oversight. Good military, brilliant engineers and capable bureaucrats but terrible merchants. And wars are won on the stock market.

> Ofcourse for the rest of Europe this is a good thing For the kings sure… for the people much less. Imagine england being defeated and india being free of colonialism.

Almost no part of the world was free from European colonialism. France was one of the largest colonial powers. If England lost to France maybe India would be speaking French instead of English now.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#142

Post by DexesTTP »

riedel wrote: post #95
grishka wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels much better than the Russian government's approach to censorship and modern tech. The problem is that there are people in Russian government who actually have a clue about how this stuff works. If the blocking is done client-side, there's plenty of ways to bypass it, like just not updating your browser, duh . Or patching it, or installing extensions that neutralize the blocking mechanism, or fooling it int…

I also do not quite get the GP comment. I see it also logical to block content on application layer from the OSI perspective. If you cannot do on the source do it at the sink if do not want to break e2e encryption. The DNS blocks have been taking down half of cloudflare in the past, so would IP blocks in many casesm How to make this technically effective so that you really need a bit of criminal energy to bypass it i…

Note about the more productive approach: Mozilla published a blog post[0] back in late June about what solutions are already available and advising for the law to reinforce these existing mechanisms instead of mandating a new browser-level blocking thing that can easily be abused.

[0] https://blog.mozilla.org/netpolicy/2023/06/26/france-browser...

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#143

Post by Slava_Propanei »

dchftcs wrote: post #125
globular-toast wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too but after talking to my MP about it I do wonder how much of it is because they (Meta) fundamentally support privacy and everything that comes with that or if it's just a convenient way to deny having any responsibility towards safety on their platforms. It's possible to be right, but for the wrong reasons. I'd like to think it's for the right reasons, but I'm not sure. If users really cared about privacy they'…

Well you could play the devil's advocate the same way. Is the UK government really caring about the children or do they just want more convenient power. If the citizens really cared about the future of their children they would not have elected a government that is a stinking pile of poop. One thing you should also have come to realise is that most politicians want surveillance power for themselves, but not for other…

> Is the UK government really caring about the children or do they just want more convenient power

I think the UK government’s blind eye toward well-known and acknowledged instances of organized child molestation shows they don’t care. About that.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#144

Post by stefncb »

maxwell wrote: post #37

Petition? Mozilla should just ban usage in France if they pass this merd.

And what would that do, exactly? The government wouldn't care. In fact, they would probably be better off for it because everyone would simply switch to Chrome and there's one less browser to deal with. The only thing you'll do is make the problem worse and take away choice from the French people who want nothing to do with this bs.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#145

Post by dragonwriter »

dchftcs wrote: post #125
globular-toast wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too but after talking to my MP about it I do wonder how much of it is because they (Meta) fundamentally support privacy and everything that comes with that or if it's just a convenient way to deny having any responsibility towards safety on their platforms. It's possible to be right, but for the wrong reasons. I'd like to think it's for the right reasons, but I'm not sure. If users really cared about privacy they'…

Well you could play the devil's advocate the same way. Is the UK government really caring about the children or do they just want more convenient power. If the citizens really cared about the future of their children they would not have elected a government that is a stinking pile of poop. One thing you should also have come to realise is that most politicians want surveillance power for themselves, but not for other…

> If the citizens really cared about the future of their children they would not have elected a government that is a stinking pile of poop.

FPTP makes it more likely than with other democratic election methods that all your choices are different varieties of stinking pile of poop.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#146

Post by Calamitous »

bonzini wrote: post #40
polotics wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes indeed! is this enforced DRM everywhere or you can't browse? is this a forced french MITM certificate chain you can't remove, is this something else? how does using Tor with a non-french exit node get impacted? If I ssh over port 80 or any other to a french-located box does something change?

It seems to be a version of safe browsing that is mandated by law to be a full block rather than a warning. It will be very easy to bypass, making this a very stupid law. It's slightly more worrisome that the law doesn't include any privacy protection measures, but the GDPR still applies and whoever runs the checking service has to comply with it since the browsing history is personal data.

> It will be very easy to bypass, making this a very stupid law.

It’s not about being effective, it’s about making things illegal. It’s trivially easy to break the speed limit, but that doesn’t stop local police using it to collect millions of dollars of fines every year

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#148

Post by Slava_Propanei »

FrenchDevRemote wrote: post #70
TacticalCoder wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... or to the benefit their friends owning private companies. Yup this one in France is really a big problem. The public sector spendings officially represents something like 58.1% of the french GDP (official "Insee" numbers from 2023, for 2022)... France is not far from a planned economy and, unsurprisingly, it's a particularly harsh environment for real small private SMEs (i.e. those without friends at the state)…

France is really far from a planned economy. Marseille's worst neighborhoods are really chill compared to the bad parts of any American city. The streets are pretty safe. Your comment is kinda ridiculous, stop watching TV. Yeah there are lot of taxes, but those taxes come in handy when you can get 2 years of unemployment benefits when starting a company. Or when you know, get a cancer that would cost a few millions t…

If Frances streets are any safer, it is due to a less retarded population and not due to any successes by Le goubernement.

Of course, France is striving to import a more retarded and dangerous populace as quickly as possible, so who knows who will win that contest.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#149

Post by downWidOutaFite »

Mordisquitos wrote: post #49
mkl95 wrote: post #13

The French government's approach to modern tech is similar to the UK and Germany in some ways. They seem to be advised by a bunch of decrepit dudes who stopped learning about computers before the OSI model was created.

> They seem to be advised by a bunch of decrepit dudes who stopped learning about computers before the OSI model was created. I suspect its more like "dudes who know nothing about computers (let alone the OSI model)" coming up with dumb ideas. These ideas are all approved and encouraged by advisors under the influence of Big Tech interests, which are more than happy to achieve regulatory capture [0] to protect their…

It's the antiAmericanism and the big tech boogeyman that drives a lot of these crazy European attacks on the open web.

Re: Petition to stop France from forcing browsers like Firefox to censor websites

#150

Post by pmontra »

mywittyname wrote: post #121
bonzini wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> government being able to mandate that a certain website not open at all on a browser/system is uncharted territory and even the most repressive regimes in the world prefer to block websites further up the network (ISPs, etc.) so far. Repressive government's don't do their blocking at the browser level because it is completely ineffective. Anyone who wants to access the forbidden websites will be able to do so anywa…

I think simply modifying the hosts file on a machine to "rename" the domain of the site you want to visit would be sufficient to bypass a browser-level block.

The browser must send a request with a Host header with the correct site name or the server will 404 it.

What could work is a local proxy server that translates the host name in the request.

It must MITM the https requests though.

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